DIL ESTRANGEMENT

I haven’t seen my gc for six months. I took them (my son and DIL) out to eat and we parted kissing and friendly. They live eight blocks from me. I contacted them a number of times; finally she answered and said they don’t owe me anything. She has my photos, and I was so good to her. I would put flowers at her back door in May from my peony garden. Never went over uninvited. I was loving.

Where does your son stand here?

The pictures may have been taken by you but it was your son in them - his image, who is the true owner?

I'm assuming that you had prints made of them ? Personally I would let it go . It's not worth becoming alienated from her ( and possibly from your son) over rolls of film. Take a step back, and remember that relationships are more important than " things". You call your post DIL estrangement, but that will only happen if you let it happen.

You must have the negatives?
As someone has said if they are all of your son he has access to them now, so that has to be a good thing?

You only have 2 options, to let it go or take them to court and try to get the pictures back.

Does your son want them?

Let it go. Relationships are so much more important than things. Dont mention it again. upsetting but for the best.

I've just written a very long post here and lost it.
I can't write it again so this is brief:

Whatever you think, these are family photos. In my family that would mean mine and my husband's to choose what to do with.
You seem to have a few options...

- Continue to argue about them being yours and not get them back,
- Agree they are family photos and pay for copies so your husband can have a set and so can you.
- Agree to share them and be content with this.

I know photos are sometimes important to us but they are not worth estrangement in my opinion. The true photos are in our hearts.

As to your son and his relationship with his wife, I think you may be mistaken as I've not heard of a Christian Fundamentalist where the wife is the Head of the family so I think you might be mistaken here?
Maybe ask your son to help you find a way through this. I think he has more influence than you believe. But you must be genuinely prepared to give-and-take.

Good luck.

Husbands obeying their wives has nothing to do with Christianity, fundamentalist or otherwise.

As for the photographs, if you've explained to your son how important they are to you, why hasn't he intervened? They do not belong to your d.i.l. so she has no right to keep them.

Having copies made so you, your ex H and you d.i.l. all have them is an excellent idea and is perhaps the best way forward, so I would tell her you want them back so this can be arranged.

Meant to add Good Luck.

They are legally your photos. I agree with Smileless to ask to make copies. I don't see how she can refuse , reasonably. I don't think there are any denominations that can support taking something as your own and not sharing it.

In the US, professional photographers mostly sign off the rights of the pictures to the customer - the photographer does not owe them

Some photographers do not do it but as adults, the customers choose to waive it

Did this son have a choice about it?

Win is not a customer, she took the photo's herself and has not signed off her rights of ownership either to her ex husband, who stole them from her, or to her d.i.l. who by refusing to give them back has also stolen them.

Her son is a person with the right to his own image, he doesnt belong to the op

No one said he did belong to the OP Hithere; he doesn't belong to his wife either and neither does his image.

This isn't about the ownership of a person or an image, it's about photographs originally stolen from the OP, then 'borrowed' from the original thief by the OP's d.i.l. who refuses to give them back.

Win15 I went through a divorce four years ago. I took all the photos; not my spouse. He stole them (six boxes full) out of our house one day when I was at work. I have been trying to get them back for the past four years. My DIL got them in her hands telling him she was going to do a family project. He gave them to her, but said he wanted them back. She told me she had them, but was going to keep them because they are of her husband (my son).

Appears your dil owes them back to your xH, he gave her the pics and said he wanted them back. Between you and him how the 2 of you sort photos, after she returns photos.

I don't really understand what has happened here.

Your ex rook the photos

DIL managed to get them from him

If something was stolen from you it should be reported to the police

Do you have the ability to reprint them?

Have you asked your son about them? Maybe he actually does want to keep the images of himself in which case, it's between you and him

Hithere

In the US, professional photographers mostly sign off the rights of the pictures to the customer - the photographer does not owe them

Some photographers do not do it but as adults, the customers choose to waive it

Did this son have a choice about it?

I think this is factually incorrect.
Copyright laws in America are such that legally the person who took the photo (I think the law calls it "pushing the button") automatically owns the copyright for their own lifetime plus 70 years. This copyright applies if any work is shown/uploaded or whatever.
The alternative to this is to take photos as a “work-for-hire” photographer where the photographer signs over the photos to another person. If you are a "staff" photographer working for a newspaper you will probably have signed an agreement like this.
Even wedding photographers don't usually sign this kind of agreement but many allow you to use/ reproduce them for an (additional) fee. Some now roll the fee into a "package" price.

In a family situation I suppose legally if you take the image it is yours. I would not think this is a healthy route to go down though.

Presumably as Win had been trying to get the photo's back from her ex for 4 years, her d.i.l. knew how much they meant to her and how badly she wanted them back, so to get her hands on them and refuse to give them back to her m.i.l. is particularly unkind.

I don't agree she should return them to her f.i.l., the man she regards as a sinner because he's gay, as he shouldn't have taken them in the first place.

VioletSky

I don't really understand what has happened here.

Your ex rook the photos

DIL managed to get them from him

If something was stolen from you it should be reported to the police

Do you have the ability to reprint them?

Have you asked your son about them? Maybe he actually does want to keep the images of himself in which case, it's between you and him

I'm having trouble keeping up, too.

It is stolen property, yes.

Perhaps you could reprint your favourite ones, Win and make an album or get together with your ex-DH and your DS &DIL and share them all out?
Better to have just a few photos and still see your family than risk having just photos to look at because you never see the family.

I've got boxes of photos, school photos, graduation photos, family snaps etc and I'd like to declutter now but my DC won't take them (yet!).

Win15 She is close to her family, but has always excluded my ex-spouse and I because we are divorced, and he came out as gay.

How would an "excluded mil" (her words) know or presume what her mil (she excludes her mil) thinks? Borrower gives back to the person borrowed from. Borrower has no real reason to believe the pics stolen.

OP can deal with xH. Deal without using others as go-between.

He stole them (six boxes full) out of our house one day when I was at work

"I should have changed that stupid lock, I should have made you leave your key"

But the borrower isn't giving them back to the person she borrowed them from is she Norah. "She told me she had them but is going to keep them because they are of her husband".

Smileless I answered the question what course of action can I take?

OP has no recourse with excluded dil to pics "stolen" by xH.

I believe a solicitor would report same, or there'd be a legal demand.