Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

VioletSky

A child's primary right is to be free from harm

A parents ability to protect a child from unsafe adults should never be compromised

As MissAdventure mentions, though, a grandparent could be the one who could protect and save a child, though.

I remember cases where a child has been horribly abused and even killed and desperate grandparents have been kept away, even contacting Social Serices to no avail.

Supervised access was eventually set up, once the children had been taken into care.

There was no need whatsoever for the nan to need supervision.

And when both children became really troublesome, where did the police fetch them to?

Oh yes, the nan.

I won't sign. It is about the children,not the Grandparents rights.
Sad though it is I don't think other agencies should be involved.

TinSoldier

VioletSky

A child's primary right is to be free from harm

A parents ability to protect a child from unsafe adults should never be compromised

Exactly and if you read this from the petition starter who also appears to be the OP …

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/108146/pdf/

… much of it seems to be about grandparents who are alleged to have been abusive and who are refusing to accept boundaries that have been set.

alleged

It could be that the allegations are unfounded in some cases.

If all parents respected the right their children have to know their GP's and other family members, and put as much emphasis on their children's feelings as they do their own, that in conjunction with the Children Act should suffice, especially where there's an already established relationship.

Yes, you make a relevant point MissA and like you Callistemon I remember cases where children were eventually murdered despite the desperate pleas and blocked intervention from concerned GP's.

The nan I know had the police round to tell her that she would be arrested if she carried on "harrssing" her son and his partner.

By harassing, they meant that she had contacted the school, and pleaded for help, been to social services three times, and so on.

Indeed Callistemon allegations of abuse could be used to ensure loving and non abusive GP's are kept away from their GC.

That poor woman must have been distraught MissA.

VioletSky

A child's primary right is to be free from harm

A parents ability to protect a child from unsafe adults should never be compromised

Why do you assume it is the grandparents who might be the ones to harm their grandchildren? Why??

Remember little Star Hobson?
Tortured and murdered by her mother's lesbian lover, a boxer.

The family were unable to get help for their beloved granddaughter and her grandfather committed suicide afterwards so he could look after his little granddaughter in heaven.

She was, and she still is, because the children are now grown, and the cycle continues.
Drink, drugs, violence....
If only someone had listened to her, and the children, because they were both petrified of their parents, and loved the calm at their nan's house.

like you Callistemon I remember cases where children were eventually murdered despite the desperate pleas and blocked intervention from concerned GP's
Those cases still make me weep, Smileless and others I know of which were not so well publicised.

Thanks for the link TinSoldier. anyone claiming to be responsible and knowledgable about the welfare of children who goes on to bring ‘Meghan and Harry’ into the argument isn’t to be taken seriously imo

What does that have to do with the issue being discussed VS?

this is extreme busybodying

my children never once asked to see their grandparents,
who they hardly saw anyway, then suddenly upon divorce,
grandparent threatened court action, I said, go ahead
MY children can see you whenever they want and dismayed though I might be, I will not prevent it
there is a reason/s mothers remove children from harm
and toxicity and your fighting for the rights of grandparents
to the detriment of the child does you no credit whatsoever

I knew a gran who had been barred from seeing her baby GS. She was so concerned that she forced her way into their home to find her S and Dil high on drugs and the baby covered in burns from cigarettes being stubbed out on him. She took him straight to hospital and eventually brought him up herself.

Each case is different.
We have read the news reports of reasons why some parents keep family out of the picture.

Whose fighting for the rights of GP's to the detriment of the child SORES?

It lends nothing to these discussions when assumptions are made that all children being denied their GP's are being removed from harm and toxicity, and is extremely offensive to the EP's and EGP's who are on this site.

Well, SORES, what if you'd had parents or a step-parent who abused you, threatened you and you were prevented from seeing the only people you knew who truly loved you and you could speak to?

Not all grandparents are estranged because they are abusive.
Not all parents are loving and caring.
Not all parents prevent their children seeing grandparents for the good of the child.

Smileless2012

Whose fighting for the rights of GP's to the detriment of the child SORES?

It lends nothing to these discussions when assumptions are made that all children being denied their GP's are being removed from harm and toxicity, and is extremely offensive to the EP's and EGP's who are on this site.

I agree Smileless, even though, thankfully, I am not an estranged grandparent.

However, it would be difficult to enshrine in law.
Have other countries done this?

Yes, of course there are individual cases where a grandparent’s intervention might have helped prevent a tragedy but that is not what is being petitioned for. What is being petitioned for is an automatic right to have contact with grandchildren.

You cannot leglislate for an automatic right. Each disputed case must be dealt with on its merits by the courts just as parental rights are.

We have already seen the OP being abusive to people on this discussion board (on a duplicate thread now deleted) name-calling those who disagree with her. You persuade people to support a cause through reasoned debate and rhetoric not by abusive language.

I legitimately don't understand this. If the child is being abused by the parents, there are laws for that. There are ways to report the abuse and have the child removed. They will attempt to place the child with family, and at that point the grandparents may assume responsibility.

I really can't see any other situation where grandparents should have visitation against the will of the parents.

Personal anecdotes will not change this. I can give endless personal anecdotes about abusive grandparents and extended family. Also about abusive parents. In the end they are just anecdotes and don't represent the wider picture reliably. Anecdotes certainly don't justify entire new laws complicating family law even further.

This is a petition to give grandparents control when they've been denied something they feel entitled to. It's gross and exploitative in my opinion.

Under Australian family law, children have the right to spend time with and communicate with their parents and other people who are important to them. This includes grandparents and other extended family members.

Grandparents can apply to a family law court for a parenting order. This means that a family law court can make an order for a child to live, spend time, and communicate with a grandparent

In Canada Grandparents have the right to apply for visiting rights and decision-making responsibility, as long as it is in the child’s best interests.

In dire situations, the grandparents can even seek the Court’s approval for sole decision-making responsibility and even custody. Usually the Courts will grant this if the grandparents can prove that the child’s parents are unfit to exercise decision-making responsibility or to have custody/parenting time over the child. The simplest example to this is when both parents are abusive or are drug addicts.

USA In many states, grandparents have the legal right to request visitation with their grandchildren. If the parents object, the court will consider this. The court will also consider several other factors that focus on the well-being of the minor child.

France The child has the right to have personal relationships with his grandparents. This right can be suppressed only for very serious reasons. The provision concerns all ascendants (ancestors) of the child, so great grandparents also have a contact right with the child.

It does seem as if the UK needs to take another look at this situation.

We have already seen the OP being abusive to people on this discussion board (on a duplicate thread now deleted) name-calling those who disagree with her. You persuade people to support a cause through reasoned debate and rhetoric not by abusive language.
I know and I did tell her that, TinSoldier
It did her cause no good at all.

You persuade people to support a cause through reasoned debate and rhetoric not by abusive language exactly TinSoldier and not by making sweeping generalisations.

I'd support a cause whatever the approach, if I felt it was right.

I don't particularly like PETA attending rallys, smeared in animal blood and disrupting and upsetting people, but I support their cause.