Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

Germanshepherdsmum

I couldn’t agree more VS”

I think it is also true that parents don't have the automatic right to see their children... for all sorts of reasons, including protecting children from harm and removing the child from an unsafe home... the law puts children first

If only it did VS.

Perhaps if the powers that be worked in a more proactive way, it would be easier to remove children from harm, and remove those whose influence is harmful from being around them.

Smileless2012

This isn't about the rights of GP's to see their GC, or the rights of parents to prevent their children from continuing the relationship they have with their GP's, it's about *the rights of the children*; rights which are and shouldn't be denied.

No it isn't a sweeping statement VS, there are too many children who lose their GP's because mum/dad or both parents have an issue with parents/p's.i'l's. One child who loses out is one child too many.

This petition isn't something I would sign but let's be right here, this is about children's rights, not their parents rights and not their GP's rights, and that has nothing to do with anyone wanting rights over a child.

I don’t see it like that. The right of a child is surely to have as happy a life as their parents are able to provide? If the parent is unhappy with their child having contact with their grandparents then they shouldn’t, otherwise the child becomes a weapon caught in the middle of the war between their parents and grandparents, which is not in their best interests at all. Their right to contact grandparents when they are 18 should they wish to still exists of course.

Not for me. I fear it could make life very difficult for any child involved.

I legitimately don't understand this. If the child is being abused by the parents, there are laws for that. There are ways to report the abuse and have the child removed.

And you think that happens in all cases?
Honestly?

SORES

Callistemon21

Well, SORES, what if you'd had parents or a step-parent who abused you, threatened you and you were prevented from seeing the only people you knew who truly loved you and you could speak to?

Not all grandparents are estranged because they are abusive.
Not all parents are loving and caring.
Not all parents prevent their children seeing grandparents for the good of the child.

well Callistemon, this is indeed an excellent description of my young life, abuse, isolation, kept from grandparents and wider family, threatened, abused, hit, then as a mother making sure my children were not subject to the same treatment, firing up their need for control at all costs.
I know all this, I lived it - you are preaching to the choir.
This subject is a powderkeg of emotion for those of us justifiably protecting our young, against the odds sometimes,
when only we and our children know the truth.

It’s not like you to be so vehemently sanctimonious.

It’s not like you to be so vehemently sanctimonious

Me?? I'm not sure what vehemently sanctimonious means but it doesn't sound like a compliment.

I'm so sorry, SORES, for what you went through.

My only concerns are ever with the child/ren.

I’m opposed to giving grandparents ‘rights’ to have contact with grandchildren. Our laws are right in giving children rights and adults responsibilities.
Family estrangement is always painful for those involved. The factors behind it are complex and intractable . The majority of families muddle through occasional stresses and keep the children’s needs centre stage.
Our laws keep the welfare of children central. We don’t need new ones. We need people to act responsibly

Including those whose jobs it is to do just that.

SORES

Callistemon21

Well, SORES, what if you'd had parents or a step-parent who abused you, threatened you and you were prevented from seeing the only people you knew who truly loved you and you could speak to?

Not all grandparents are estranged because they are abusive.
Not all parents are loving and caring.
Not all parents prevent their children seeing grandparents for the good of the child.

well Callistemon, this is indeed an excellent description of my young life, abuse, isolation, kept from grandparents and wider family, threatened, abused, hit, then as a mother making sure my children were not subject to the same treatment, firing up their need for control at all costs.
I know all this, I lived it - you are preaching to the choir.
This subject is a powderkeg of emotion for those of us justifiably protecting our young, against the odds sometimes,
when only we and our children know the truth.

It’s not like you to be so vehemently sanctimonious.

As far as I'm aware, you are a new poster, so I'm not sure how you can make a judgement about me on your relatively limited experience of my posts.

Callistemon21

^Under Australian family law, children have the right to spend time with and communicate with their parents and other people who are important to them. This includes grandparents and other extended family members.^

Grandparents can apply to a family law court for a parenting order. This means that a family law court can make an order for a child to live, spend time, and communicate with a grandparent

In Canada Grandparents have the right to apply for visiting rights and decision-making responsibility, as long as it is in the child’s best interests.

In dire situations, the grandparents can even seek the Court’s approval for sole decision-making responsibility and even custody. Usually the Courts will grant this if the grandparents can prove that the child’s parents are unfit to exercise decision-making responsibility or to have custody/parenting time over the child. The simplest example to this is when both parents are abusive or are drug addicts.

USA In many states, grandparents have the legal right to request visitation with their grandchildren. If the parents object, the court will consider this. The court will also consider several other factors that focus on the well-being of the minor child.

France The child has the right to have personal relationships with his grandparents. This right can be suppressed only for very serious reasons. The provision concerns all ascendants (ancestors) of the child, so great grandparents also have a contact right with the child.

It does seem as if the UK needs to take another look at this situation.

I think I agree.

I was so surprised when another poster on a previous thread a few months ago on this subject, said that other countries do it differently.

I only may agree because the problem, [if social media is all to believed], seems to be getting increasingly worse.
In real life, as I said recently, I think I only know two families. Perhaps it is somewhat a hidden problem?

The “it’s about the rights of the child to see their grandparents” is such a flawed argument.

What about aunts and uncles? Former step parents? Great grandparents? Cousins? Where does it end?

Some argue “but what about grandparents who are trying to protect children from abusive parents?”

Well about about parents who are trying to protect against abusive grandparents?

Or what about parents who want to emigrate to give their child a better life? They can’t?

What about when that child doesn’t really want to see grandparents in a Saturday? They want to see their friends? Sorry darling, granny took us to court?

It’s ridiculous.

Or what about parents who want to emigrate to give their child a better life? They can’t?

There is no reason not to have contact unless estranged.
Actually that is rather interesting as Australian law is different from UK law.

What about when that child doesn’t really want to see grandparents in a Saturday? They want to see their friends? Sorry darling, granny took us to court?
Oh, for goodness sake.

It’s a No from me.

I think it’s a terrible idea which puts the children right in the fire of parent/grandparent animosity and is likely to cause negative emotional issues for children. Such enforced contact is almost certainly going to be deeply unsatisfactory.

It's sad, Grannytomany but I think you're right.

You might dismiss me but this is what children face everyday where there are adults strictly enforcing court orders. It’s devastating for children. And far far to many adults think of “their” time and “their” rights.

That’s without throwing grandparents into the mix.

Tricky issue. We should remember that there are parents who do not have their children’s best interests at heart. There are parents who use their children to antagonise their former partner. We certainly shouldn’t believe that all parents have their children at the heart of their behaviour. And sadly their are parents who use their children to hurt their parents or parents in law. Nonetheless the less, I’m unsure about signing because, although other countries do have grandparents rights enshrined in law, it is not the way things have been done here. I’m genuinely unsure. The rights of children are already enshrined in law, but sadly some parents do not respect their children’s rights.

Should parents really have the right to cut off all contact with every member of their extended family? It’s a tricky issue.

I think emigration is a different matter. But loving families will try to ensure that the children continue to have reasonable contact with those family members that they were always used to seeing and having contact with regularly.

Smileless2012

If only it did VS.

Unfortunately emotional abuse is hard to prove

However my grandparents were no safer than my parents... That's why parents like me break cycles for our own children. Some of us are strong enough to get the real actual help required

Another sad truth is that abusive people often have created a reality for themselves where all their actions were justified and they are the real victims. Abuse is caused by mental illness after all. Thankfully they don't have and should never have automatic rights

But again this petition does ask for "automatic rights to see the grandchildren" which is more than parents themselves have... Which is a red flag for me

I feel like it would be more democratic if every petition had an against option really

Utter nonsense.

Should parents really have the right to cut off all contact with every member of their extended family? It’s a tricky issue.

Absolutely they should. Is it sad? Yes. But you should not be able to force people to spend their time on people they have no interest being around.

I dont have any children so I dont have any skin in the game.. I was far closer to my grandmother than to my parents but that was the choice I made for myself despite my parents disapproval. The poster who said that children can make up their own minds when they get to their teens and have phones is correct. Much easier now than when I was a teen.

There have been sooo many threads from "heartbroken" grandparents who want to live through their children.

I wont be signing.