Petition: Give legal right of contact between grandchildren and grandparents

From work experience - GPs can pick upon abuse.

But, to fair, my family are currently going through the Family Court system, involving my GS, his dysfunctional ex girlfriend and a year old child - my great granddaughter.

But, we all need to carry on with all the checks, assessments etc, before the final judgement in May. Quite right.

It’s not needed any change in the law.

The social workers, the judge and every other professional involved wants us all involved.

They all think the extended family will bring nothing but good to this child.

But, it’s been a long saga, the mother can’t ever be involved, so I suppose it’s just trying to make the best of it.🙂

I might have misunderstood what you’re saying VS, but as Stand Alone exists to support estranged adults I would guess that its statistic of 9 out of 10 might not necessarily represent the risks associated with grandparental involvement in general.

I don't think there was estrangement in Star's case either, lockdown was the factor. Before lockdown, the grandmother was often out drinking with that young mum and the grandfather was an addict. With an IQ of just 70 herself, that young lady needed a far better life and support system than she had.

Delila

I might have misunderstood what you’re saying VS, but as Stand Alone exists to support estranged adults I would guess that its statistic of 9 out of 10 might not necessarily represent the risks associated with grandparental involvement in general.

Yet people want to give people like my mother "automatic access" and want to argue that somehow more good than bad would come out of that situation?

Again the rights belong to the child and if a grandparent can prove themselves beneficial they can already go to court in this country. The caveat being they must prove themselves beneficial and the parents have the opportunity to dispute that

Fair enough VS, I’m not advocating grandparents having automatic rights, but it would be wrong to give the impression that 9 out of 10 grandparents are high-risk.

Delila

Fair enough VS, I’m not advocating grandparents having automatic rights, but it would be wrong to give the impression that 9 out of 10 grandparents are high-risk.

That's not what I said, you need to read it again

VioletSky

I don't think there was estrangement in Star's case either, lockdown was the factor. Before lockdown, the grandmother was often out drinking with that young mum and the grandfather was an addict. With an IQ of just 70 herself, that young lady needed a far better life and support system than she had.

Nasty comment, Violetsky
You know full well that the grandfather was so distressed about baby Star's murder that he committed suicide.

Personal anecdotes are interesting but no two personal experiences are the same. This does all need a review, even if just to find out if other countries manage this better.

VioletSky

Delila

I might have misunderstood what you’re saying VS, but as Stand Alone exists to support estranged adults I would guess that its statistic of 9 out of 10 might not necessarily represent the risks associated with grandparental involvement in general.

Yet people want to give people like my mother "automatic access" and want to argue that somehow more good than bad would come out of that situation?

Again the rights belong to the child and if a grandparent can prove themselves beneficial they can already go to court in this country. The caveat being they must prove themselves beneficial and the parents have the opportunity to dispute that

I’m regularly in disagreement with VioletSky but it’s important to acknowledge when we agree. VS is absolutely right to say that grandparents in England have the opportunities to apply to the Courts people have identified in France/Australia
In public law, the importance of grandparents/aunts etc is always considered. It’s not unusual for grandparents to be named in final care plans as having direct / indirect contact after final care plan. Long term foster carers often facilitate contact with grandparents, attend funerals etc.
In private law the welfare of the child remains central. Some family estrangements aren’t repairable. Some people are impossible. Sadly they,may be grandparents or parents.

Of course In the vast majority of families grandparents are doting and a real benefit all round. Sadly the occasional dreadful parent can’t see that. Other than mediation, therapeutic work, I don’t see how any legal process will change thath

What is nasty about it? It's true, I studied it for my course

VioletSky

What is nasty about it? It's true, I studied it for my course

Read your own post.

Iam64

I do genuinely believe that children are always the priority in these cases...

I do genuinely feel for grandparents who miss out on a loving family relationship when it isn't just...

Children just have to be the priority across the board

I have Callistemon, it is factually correct and I don't see an issue with it or a reason to call me nasty...

I'm not really interested in an argument if that is what is happening

I'll discuss but I'm not getting personal and aggressive over an Internet topic when I can just do something else instead

Yes Iam GP's in England do have the opportunity to apply to the family courts and I don't think anyone has said otherwise, but when they do so it's to ask the courts to recognise the rights their GC have.

Problems arise though when despite a court order, parents continue to deny access then the only recourse for the other parent or GP is to return to court. This is what happens when the adult in a position to control who the child can and cannot see, does not have the best interests of the child at heart.

Even with an IQ of 70, the mother must have known that the abuse that little girl was subjected too was unacceptable to say the least VS.

I agree Callistemon that this needs to be reviewed and looking at other countries to see if and how they manage this better would be a good starting point.

I do not agree that all GP's should have automatic access to their GC, but the law needs to be strong enough to uphold the ruling when made, that the parent(s) must make the child available to those GP's if a contact order has been given.

What's the point of children having the right to know extended family members if the law isn't enforced.

If Star's mother's IQ was 70, then surely it would have made sense to have family input, too?

I am not defending what happened, It is just true that the mum did not have a good start in life nor good influence, she was drinking with her mother often under the legal age. She was also badly beaten by her partner with a poor IQ being a very emotionally immature and easily led barely adult

I genuinely don't know how SS missed this one and how this was allowed to happen. It is a huge tragedy. The pandemic was a very dangerous time for many children and I can only think that potentially SS were working in very difficult conditions

I'm not saying it is a reason, across the board, why grandparents must be given access.
Just pointing out that there are cases (because Star is only one of many) where regular visits from relatives may have helped prevent what happened.

It's not even estrangement, in many cases; it is parents and partners going to extreme lengths to cover up what's happening.

No idea why, no idea why they don't just give the child to protective services.

VioletSky

Smileless2012

That goes against the Children Act AmberSpyglass which exists in part to protect children's rights.

Nan and granddad may pick up on their GC being abused VS even if they only see their GC once a month and could also be seen by the child as a safe adult they can confide in.

Unlikely

I would think it happens a lot.

We are talking emotional abuse fancy that and most victims don't know it is happening (especially children) for a long time

Smileless2012

They do maddy. For a GP to have any chance of success to obtain a contact order they need to prove that they've been a constant and regular person in that child's life.

If a parent is prepared to do everything the can to prevent the other parent being a part of their child's life, and we know that some do, what realistic chance do GP's have?

None. But as you’ve said under the law it’s about what’s best for rhe child. A child can’t miss a grandparent they’ve never had a relationship with. So not seeing them is not harmful to the child. Perhaps another reason why estranged adult children are so hesitant to try to work things out. One wouldn’t want to give the grandparents an in at telling the court how close they and grandchild are. “Grandparents rights “ are insane and shouldn’t exist period.

Posted before I was done - grandparents don’t and should exist. Under current law they can petition the courts to hear their case if they believe it would be harmful to the CHILD who does have rights not to see them. BUT. They must prove that an existing relationship exists And that the child is being harmed by keeping them away. All to often that is not the case , which a why it’s rare to hear of a court agreeing to be involved . Simply because a grandparent thinks know it then is beneficial doesn’t actually make it so. It would have to expressly harmful not to know you.

VS you only see things from your point of view. I don’t agree with your comments.

Allsorts

VS you only see things from your point of view. I don’t agree with your comments.

Then you also only see things from your point of view

VioletSky

I have Callistemon, it is factually correct and I don't see an issue with it or a reason to call me nasty...

Now then, I didn't, did I.

Read my post again. Properly.

Either explain what the problem is or don't

Arguments don't interest me