Family set-up not as you've been told

Family may already know, in your post I would let sleeping dogs lie.

Position!! Apologies.

My sons were 17 and 20 when their little brother was born, I do hope no one thinks he isn't mine. Actually thinking about it my dad was 20 years older than his youngest sibling, believe me my very religious granny was telling no lies about that and my father and his other sisters remembered her being born.

Maybe your suspicions are right, maybe they aren't. Does it matter now? Perhaps just think how sad it must have been for "Aunty P" and how it affected her and your mother. Addressing a Christmas card seems a small issue in comparison.

This was not uncommon.
How much does it bother you or others in the family?
It sounds as if the person who told you wasn't privy to this secret, just making a guess.
My own thoughts are that as your mum has died, and as you say, it doesn't affect you directly, to let their secret rest with them. Would you feel a lot better if you hd it confirmed - and would your aunt / cousin or anyone else be able to do that?
It also sounds as if you don't see her very much - if you do, you could raise it obliquely. "Aunty P was especially fond of my mum....."
But maybe, just accept that everyone involved did what they thought best at the time.

It doesn't unduly bother me - I just accept what I've now been told (by that indirect route of someone my parents had never met - ie a work colleague of mine) and think "Well my mother was always extremely reserved to everyone - including me. On the other hand my "aunt" seemed to have rather a different temperament and her daughter (my "cousin") is not my definition of a prude - well she had come from a very different mother to my own and so I guess that's not surprising that "cousin" is someone that would call a spade a "bl**dy shovel" imo LOL.

I only know my "grandmother" wanted to give my mother away to be brought up by that awful order of nuns that are notorious for how they treated the children in their "care" when my "grandfather" died when she was 4 years old or so - because my father explained to me one time that that is what "grandmother" had tried to do, but "grandfather" did like children and he was in the Freemasons and so when "grandfather" died so early in her life they stepped in and stopped "grandmother" doing that (visions of a group of Freemasons turning up on "grans" door and saying "How much money do we have to tempt you with to make sure you keep bringing up your grandchild to adulthood?").

My father told me that much because he said to me "There's something you need to know - in order to understand your mother" (ie he knew we weren't close to each other ever) and she's most definitely my mother....but I guess I was visibly wondering why she didn't feel like a mum to me (once I'd met some other peoples mums), but he did feel like a dad to me. So he thought he'd better tell me something to help explain how she was....

As I tell people "I'm from a line of women who didn't want children - and in my case we'd reached the 1970s (ie the Pill and, if I'd needed it, legal abortion) and therefore it stopped with me".

Well you ve absolutely no idea,she could easily have been an older mother
My maternal gran had my Dad ( one of five) 10 years after her last child and her first child my dads eldest brother was already left home and married and had his own children by the time my Dad was born
I really can’t understand how you can take for gospel a throw away remark from someone who doesn’t even know your family !!! Really strange on your part

My neighbour always thought his older sister was his actual mother. There’s 22 years between them. Ofcourse he didn’t tell me this. He passed away a few years ago . His wife pops in to me for a chat and she recently mentioned it.

I would definitely leave well alone!

BlueBelle

Well you ve absolutely no idea,she could easily have been an older mother
My maternal gran had my Dad ( one of five) 10 years after her last child and her first child my dads eldest brother was already left home and married and had his own children by the time my Dad was born
I really can’t understand how you can take for gospel a throw away remark from someone who doesn’t even know your family !!! Really strange on your part

Maybe it might be strange for some people to think "That's It!" when told that......but there are some of us who are quite good at reading body language and/or have some level of "intuition".

Yep...to both categories in my case. I have (deliberately) learnt over the years to be pretty reasonable at reading body language. Also I have got used over the years to my intuition telling me things I have no logical way of knowing and acting accordingly (the most useful was when I took in lodgers years back and knew I needed to race home right NOW the day after a new one moved in, as my house was at risk). I took 15 minutes to race home....she had gone out 15 minutes before and (albeit accidentally) did not take care to shut my front door to properly before locking it and it was wide open to any passing burglar. So - yep...intuition told me instantly she was right when she said that....and I just hadn't seen it sooner because I'd taken it as right I'd been told the truth by my mother....

My "cousin" (ie aunt) does know what my father is like - so I doubt she'd be surprised at all to hear me comment on this. Reason - my father is a very straightforward person/pretty highly principled/etc (a thing that my mother wasnt too keen on - but she knew they differed in that respect). She was secretive. Him - if he thought he probably said it....

You say it doesn’t bother you, then leave well alone.
Or, alternatively do some proper family research (birth certificates, marriage certificates etc) and find out fir yourself.
Anecdotal evidence or opinions based on old photographs are not actual evidence.
From the length of your posts it sounds very much as if it does bother you - so why hesitate?

I believe Eric Clapton, the musician, grew up thinking that his birth mother was his sister, until he found out aged 17. It was common back in the day and actually it was better, imo, that the baby was kept in the family than adopted by a stranger.

Families were close lipped back in the day, lots of secrets, mainly because communities were closer knit and if it had come out about your aunt the family could have been judged harshly. Also parents didn't always fill in the gaps with family histories, talking about things with the kids wasn't the done thing, my mother didn't tell us that my aunty had previously been married, then divorced, before she married the uncle we had always known, until we found out from our aunty herself when we were teenagers.

Babs03

Families were close lipped back in the day, lots of secrets, mainly because communities were closer knit and if it had come out about your aunt the family could have been judged harshly. Also parents didn't always fill in the gaps with family histories, talking about things with the kids wasn't the done thing, my mother didn't tell us that my aunty had previously been married, then divorced, before she married the uncle we had always known, until we found out from our aunty herself when we were teenagers.

That doesn't surprise me - ie the more "close lipped". It would have certainly been useful to me to know that my mother was particularly old-fashioned (compared to other peoples in my generation) and why (well she had been brought up by a woman two generations older than her - rather than one generation).

So very very "close-lipped" indeed. Just a terse comment more than once of "Well I was entitled to go down the aisle in white" made by her and I was quite surprised when she did mention that my "auntie" had had a brief affair - which seemed to be a tit-for-tat for the fact my "uncle" had had one first.

Possibly/probably why I want a good explanation of any/every decision a person or the Government has made since - ie because nothing much ever did get explained. The odd bit of a parent being "modern" and saying anything was when my father occasionally disapproved of what she'd done so much that he told me. Knowing my father - I have a bit of a suspicion it was done to reinforce his comment to me one time of "Your mother will expect you to be a carer to her in years to come - don't do it!" He started that one off with telling me "When you gave your mother money for keep - she kept it all" (yep...she did "ask" for quite a bit more than my friends were paying) ....".........but, when your mother asked your brother for keep = she put it all to one side and gave it back to him when he bought a house (along with another person - as he'd just got married)". Well that certainly helped my decision that my brother was going to be the carer if she did ever need one....

I'd not be particularly happy if our children "admitted to wondering" why they're spread over 20 years. I'd leave it alone.

FWIW, they are siblings, 100% related to each other, but why ask?

If it didn’t bother me I’d ignore the tittle tattle, if it did I’d research it, either way I certainly wouldn’t be posting it publicly?

Best left, or researched properly.

I discovered at the age of 9 or 10 that my Nan wasn’t my Mum’s mum, but her stepmum. Nan’s sister blurted it out, but she was a nasty piece of work, always stirring up trouble. My mum’s mum died when Mum was a baby. Her father married again a couple of years later but he died in the war when Mum was 9. Luckily her stepmum brought her up. I don’t know why my vicious aunt made an issue of it. It made no difference.

Some people just stir up trouble. Forget it, OP.

In the past it was quite common to 'hide' an illegitimate child by saying that the actual mother's mother had given birth to it.

Right up until the 1970 it was consered a shameful thing to have had an illegimtimate child. This is one of the reasons so many were given up for adoption.

My MiL taught in a rural area and she often talked about the number of children she taught who had mothers who were women in their 50s. Of course these women had not given birth to these children, but, probably, one of their unmarried teenage daughters was the parent of the child and to stop the girl bringing disgrace on herself and the family by admitting to an illegitimate birth, this was the way round it.

Tragically, a number of these children were the result of crimes of incest, where the girl had been raped by a family member, often their father.

In cases like this, as in your family, Cariadagain I would let sleeping dogs lie. You do not know what other family members know and who has no idea.

My grandfather was illegitimate, but he had a cover story based on his father dying before he was born. no-one in the family knew, except, possibly his eldest son - and one daughter knew this was not true. My grandfather had 11 children.

In the early years of this century, there was a family gathering at my parents house and i was there helping with the catering and a cnversation started about my grandfather's origins, and someone brought out the story we had all been brought up on of his father dying before his birth, when one of my aunts suddenly said, actually, I saw his mother's death certficate - and she was described as a spinster.

The response from his children, all in their 70s and 80s was interesting, several said, 'Yes, I had suspected that,' but several were taken entirely by surprise. No one was bothered or upset.

So, Cariadagain some of your relatives may have realised what happened and that relationships between different people in the family are not as presented, but many may genuinely not realise. I mean you have only just realised. So, as I said, let sleeping dogs lie.

MOnica - Don't know if this has been more common in rural areas then? This is a very rural area where I am now and someone here said this was common here back in the day (guess it would have just been taken as "One more person to work on the farm" or the like??).

Certainly wonder what happened in my "aunt's" case - as it was a big city (ie Plymouth) - so probably very easy in such a big place to "hide" whoever the father was, whereas a lot of people would probably have a good idea in a rural area like this.

CariadAgain

BlueBelle

Well you ve absolutely no idea,she could easily have been an older mother
My maternal gran had my Dad ( one of five) 10 years after her last child and her first child my dads eldest brother was already left home and married and had his own children by the time my Dad was born
I really can’t understand how you can take for gospel a throw away remark from someone who doesn’t even know your family !!! Really strange on your part

Maybe it might be strange for some people to think "That's It!" when told that......but there are some of us who are quite good at reading body language and/or have some level of "intuition".

Yep...to both categories in my case. I have (deliberately) learnt over the years to be pretty reasonable at reading body language. Also I have got used over the years to my intuition telling me things I have no logical way of knowing and acting accordingly (the most useful was when I took in lodgers years back and knew I needed to race home right NOW the day after a new one moved in, as my house was at risk). I took 15 minutes to race home....she had gone out 15 minutes before and (albeit accidentally) did not take care to shut my front door to properly before locking it and it was wide open to any passing burglar. So - yep...intuition told me instantly she was right when she said that....and I just hadn't seen it sooner because I'd taken it as right I'd been told the truth by my mother....

But you didn't have any intuition about it did you? Someone else just put the idea in your head and it might be true or it might not. I'd hate to think of future generations looking at the 20 year gap between my eldest and youngest and making this sort of assumption, I might go so far as to haunt them.

Yeh! My eldest sister (late) was 21 when I was born and engaged to be married at the time. So her own first baby was born when I was 16 months old making me her auntie.🙂 I was the youngest of 6 and there is a 9 year gap between the youngest sibling and myself.
People did often marry younger in those days, put into this context though the fact that they might have been working from age fifteen full time and out there in the world “doing stuff” -and all without having gone to university as well.
It was pretty usual.

My Father died in 1949 and my mother remarried in 1961 when I was already married.
I had my children in 1965&1970 so my stepdad was always Grandad.
He died in 1976 and sometime later I told the children that he wasn’t my father and Gran had been married twice.
When she found out she was furious with me I really don’t know why.
There was no scandal or back story just a sad death.
A few years ago I started my Family tree.
I found and got into contact with second cousins I never knew about.
My mother always led me to believe she had no Aunts or Uncles.
It was too late to ask her.
They certainly kept things to themselves.

CariadAgain someone has put an idea in your head and you've decided this person has to be correct because you want it to be.

My fathers oldest sister V was born in 1916. His youngest sister J was born in 1935. V couldn't possibly have been J's mother because she was married and pregnant with my cousin G when J was born.

There are plenty of women in their late 40s have had children, some, 2 I know it probably was the daughter who had the child secretly.
One of my own aunts disappeared for a year in the late40s then came back home, never married, none of the family knew for certain but she probably had a child.