Married nearly 35 years Help!

How I agree with Silverbrooks.

I was married to a narcissist for many years. I knew nothing about narcissism until very late in the marriage, and since divorcing in 2017 have educated myself about it. I'll never get involved with such a person again. I was my ex's second wife, he's about to embark on what will be his fourth marriage I hear. As for me, I'll never marry again. My partner of six months and I both live alone and although we speak on the phone most days and meet up a few times a week, we know the importance of having our own space and pursuing our own interests.

I would advise counselling, Char. You do need to find yourself. I'm sure the extravagant days out, etc. are very nice, but deep down, what do you want? No one has the right to control your every move. I can honestly say that divorce - though extremely painful - is sometimes the only way. Do you really love your husband or do you love your lifestyle? My life these days is very simple - but infinitely happier.

To continue the analogy There’s no such thing as a free lunch
Sorry, OP - no more sympathy from me (and nobody suggested “crotchet” -not crotchet- or Greek) - now you are taking the proverbial.

BlueBelle - you and me both ✔️✔️✔️

RosieandherMaw 😂

Char65 You ve just eaten a huge meal in a very posh restaurant with every waiter at your beck and call giving you the full treatment and then you ve sat back and said that was perfect but I m not paying a penny for it

You ve had and are still having everything handed to you on a plate but don’t like how it’s being handed, but you are still taking the plate with both hands

I actually feel sorry for your husband and don’t admire your dishonesty

Shaking my head in despair.
What would I not give for my husband to say “let’s go shopping together then have a spot of lunch “
Many of my friends and their husbands share the same interests and enjoy it. These are professional and independently minded women in perfectly healthy marriages.
However I am sure going to Ascot (of course) has helped ease OP’s angst. Wimbledon and Henley should help in due course too. Not forgetting Glyndebourne, Cowes week and the Glorious 12th.

I don’t have this on my phone for obvious reasons. What obvious reasons? Does he check your phone?

So now we know he retired some time before 2020, so you have had over six years of this.

Why was Covid a nightmare? Do you mean it was a nightmare because you were locked down with him?

Other than when he was working or now playing golf, it sounds like he rarely lets you out of his sight. He wants us to be doing stuff together all the time. That isn’t healthy. Everybody needs space and time to themselves.

Ask yourself, how often do you have time on your own? What do you do socially on your own? Literally, how many hours in a week are you away from him?

I want to say something about narcissism. There are tons of online resources about this. See just how many of the traits he has.

I mention this because narcissists often struggle with being alone. This is because they rely on external validation from others to maintain their self-esteem and sense of self-worth. They crave attention, admiration, or even just the feeling of being needed by others to feel good about themselves. This need for validation can manifest as an inability to tolerate being alone, often leading them to seek out constant interaction and engagement with others.

They will turn it around and say it's because they want to be with you but it's really because they cannot be alone.

If he no longer has validation through work and not as much validation throught his golf buddies then, and as time gooes on, he is going to be relying on you more and more for that validation.

You say: I don’t really know what I do want to do.

As I said in my last post - first step, seek some counselling - not least to discover why you say you both dread the future with him but also say that divorce from him would be your worse fear.

Is it merely because you don’t want to lose the lavish lifestyle? Or is because you fear living on your own? But you wouldn't be alone. You have children and grandchildren and friends. You would just be out from under his control. And it is control and always has been.

Please stop blaming yourself for his behaviour. Yes, it sounds like you have been blinded by the money and the lifestyle it has bought you but you would be entitled to a good setttlement. I doubt you would be struggling.

You are only 60, not even retirement age. You could get a job, start a businesss, maybe start a small catering company if you like to cook. The children are grown up. This is your time and you have right to be spending it doing the things you want to do.

Has he had physio for his shoulder? With time it helps.

We've physio: total knee replacements and my husband for his shoulders.

Join the National Trust
Do things together which you both enjoy.

Do your own thing as well and encourage him to pursue his hobbies too. Make sure his shoulder gets medical attention.

Did you wear a lovely hat to Ascot?

Hi, sorry for not replying to these messages earlier but we went to Ascot and then had a b/day celebration and I don’t have this on my phone for obvious reasons. But please let me explain a bit more – I like @Sielha’s post which basically sums it all up and I think @eazybee makes some good points too.

As I’ve said in the OP I had a lot of time on my own and/or with the children had a lot of freedom and money, then DH retires, first things weren’t great but he helped our eldest set a business and then the Covid hit which was a nightmare and then things settled down a bit, he played a lot of golf but hurt his shoulder and plays less now. Anyway, the long and the short of it is this – DH thinks the marriage is fab, first rate, perfect – however you want to describe it and kind of thinks like this (I know this as he has said it), “look, I’ve worked long hours and I've neglected you - now the kids have almost let home let’s do stuff together, let’s have quality time together. Lets go auctioneering or the NT properties or drive out to the country and have a long walk with the dog or go away for the weekend or to our villa or whatever.” To which I might say “Oh I’d planned to go shopping today!” to which he’ll say, “ Great lets go shopping and then have a spot of lunch.” So basically, he wants us to be doing stuff together all the time and to be fair when we’re out we do have quite a nice time (on the whole) and I can’t use money as an excuse for not doing stuff as we have plenty of it so I'm stuck.

I get what others have said about having other interests and learning Greek and crotchet and whatnot and that’s fine but that’s not DH’s view of his retirement. He thinks it should be me and him out and about – and yes, it might be doing things I suggest but together - at other times he might play golf or see friends and I might do the same but in the main he thinks we should be doing stuff and its hard as I liked my own space I really did and DH is a bit... as I've said already sometimes difficult so I do feel I have to be a bit careful around him, not fully relaxed. Then, you add into the mix us babysitting the g/c's (they come to our house) at least once a week and the youngest being at home clashing with DH when he emerges from his cave like some creature from the deep and the fact DH thinks I still do too much for the children you have pretty toxic mix, though to be fair he’s not too bad on the last bit.

As others have said I’ve been a doormat and I’ve kind of just let things roll over me and done what ever is easiest to keep the peace. Of course, in 35 years of marriage we’ve had rows/cross words/arguments but a lot have been child- related (I’ll always defend the children) and I have clashed with him over some other stuff too but not a lot and that’s why I guess he doesn’t really know how I feel about things because I’ve kept things hidden for the for the sake of the children and the marriage and in all honesty I don’t really know what I do want to do if that makes more sense and as @startingover61 says that has to be the first thing. I love cooking but can do that home and not that much else really. But I know I’m to blame as I knew what he was like when we married and I liked the lifestyle so in a way I know I can’t really complain now, but I am!

Coercive control takes many forms, and there are certainly aspects of it here. Examples of the language I find concerning are: 'he let me...', 'he makes me change my clothes...', and '... walking on eggshells'. I had a married life similar to the one being described, but when my (now ex) husband retired (5 years before I did - I had always worked full-time, no children), his bad behaviour (which had existed during our long marriage) became much worse. To cut a very long story short, I divorced him in 2017 - he actually left me for another woman from whom he's now divorced and from what I heard recently, is now preying on a widow. I know my ex is nothing more than a predator who uses women for his own gain, and this isn't what we're dealing with here, but I do know from experience that you have to know what you want in life. As there are no plans to divorce here, you have to make a life for yourself. Find something you're passionate about and get involved. As others have said, this might take the form of volunteering, or perhaps a new hobby. You've been the submissive one for too long and you've lost your confidence and sense of self, and need to get them back. It took me a long time and a lot of counselling to heal, but I'm now in a different part of the country from my ex, have new friends and interests... and 6 months ago met my new partner, the polar opposite of my ex husband.

I’m a similar age and have a similar situation except for the controlling aspect that you refer to. Reading the comments, I can agree with most and I totally understand the “not wanting to divorce/husband drives you mad” dilemma. I think it is probably common at our age when children have left home and retirement kicks in. I have chosen the “rough with the smooth” path or, if your religious and had a church ceremony, “for better or worse”. But I have seen many women on here who have chosen to separate and never regretted it. It really is a tough one. Again, I agree with the suggestions of voluntary work, your own life/interests. Think about something you’ve always wanted to do but never had the time for - now’s the time! Good luck x

Norah

I agree.

OP may have worked out what she dreads, but it's not been stated. Myself, I'd leave as I don't care to be bossed, won't be told what to wear, and don't care for her husband's allowance money mindset. OP will need to decide for herself, perhaps all these other opinions have been helpful.

Ditto. But DH learned all that fairly soon after our nuptials.

I agree.

OP may have worked out what she dreads, but it's not been stated. Myself, I'd leave as I don't care to be bossed, won't be told what to wear, and don't care for her husband's allowance money mindset. OP will need to decide for herself, perhaps all these other opinions have been helpful.

keepingquiet

OP herself admitted it was not coercive control...

Sometimes women do not realise they are in that kind of relationship but eazybee is right, too. There is too much apportioning of labels, particularly on social media, now.

Homestead62

I cannot believe the excuses being made on here for this man. Coercive control does exist and is against the law. Sadly, I've seen too many women tolerate behaviour from men that is actually abuse, or comes very close to it. The lady says she ' dreads the future'. Not a sign of a healthy relationship. The behaviour needs to be discussed and he needs to know it's unacceptable.

Yes, we know it exists and we know people who are coercively controlled and from what we have been told, this is not it.

We don't really have the full picture, not even one side of it completely.

I don't believe OP has stated what this dread is.
Too much apportioning of labels on insufficient evidence, simply supposition.

OP herself admitted it was not coercive control...

I cannot believe the excuses being made on here for this man. Coercive control does exist and is against the law. Sadly, I've seen too many women tolerate behaviour from men that is actually abuse, or comes very close to it. The lady says she ' dreads the future'. Not a sign of a healthy relationship. The behaviour needs to be discussed and he needs to know it's unacceptable.

I agree, Steelygran

Just don't be there all the time, no need to argue, if he's demanding a clean ironed shirt, then smile and show him how the washing machine works, where the iron is - after all, he's retired now!

Then go out and do something interesting.

If you’re dreading a future with him you need to separate. You’re young and can reinvent yourself. Doesn’t sound like love to me, just a fear of being on your own and taking responsibility. I’m 67 and my own woman - never been happier.

I've been following this thread with interest and some concern at Char's request for "Help!"
I can see, from what she tells us, that Char is used to putting her husband's needs and wishes first and her own last; she's a compliant partner in the marriage. It seems to me as though she can never truly relax.

"if I stand up to him and argue we can be at loggerheads for days so I tend to just do what he wants"
"He ... gets shirty and annoyed."
I feel I’m treading on eggshells around him."

All I'd add to the advice already given is that Char might think about having a bit more of her own life, whether it's a hobby or part-time job outside the house, to help her to think clearly and relax. A job would be better and she might be able to save some of her own money. Then, at some point in the future, if she decides she needs or wants to leave, the money and job would help make it possible. But that's entirely her choice. I think she'll know if/when the time comes.

Allira

I agree with eazybee's post - not all but in essence.

I will repeat - we only have one side of the story.
When people retire adjustment can be difficult, it is an enormous upheaval in many cases. If one half of the partnership has been accustomed to different expectations over the years, in this case *Char65's husband, they might be astonished to find their partner's expectations are suddenly quite different from those she has happily accepted for years.

It could be a turbulent time for a while while you both adjust but it's worth a try imo.

I don't think diagnosing coercive control from just reading an online perspective of a marriage from one partner's point of view is necessarily helpful.

Particularly as I have repeatly said I do not believe there is is coercive control!!! . I'm happy to go with go with eazybee's
possibly somewhat autocratic and on occasion slightly overbearing.
description of my DH!!

I agree with eazybee's post - not all but in essence.

I will repeat - we only have one side of the story.
When people retire adjustment can be difficult, it is an enormous upheaval in many cases. If one half of the partnership has been accustomed to different expectations over the years, in this case *Char65's husband, they might be astonished to find their partner's expectations are suddenly quite different from those she has happily accepted for years.

It could be a turbulent time for a while while you both adjust but it's worth a try imo.

I don't think diagnosing coercive control from just reading an online perspective of a marriage from one partner's point of view is necessarily helpful.

OP, you have made it clear you do not want a divorce saying it would be your worse fear but you haven’t said why. What are you frightened of?

Perhaps turn your dilemma? Life is short-- step into your own happiness.

My goodness eazybee. It was OP who labelled him an alpha male and anybody who bothers to read the Police and CPS definitions of CCB would see that there is CCB. Did you bother?

I made it clear upthread that, from what has been described here, it wouldn’t meet the threshold for prosecution. But if someone drives at 31mph in a 30mph speed zone they are still speeding.

Why are you criticising people who have taken the time and trouble to reply to a women who cried Help and says she dreads the future? You are defending a man you don’t know and claiming that OP’s opening post was ill-thought out. Maybe it was since she has been rowing back but I framed my replies based on what she wrote before she started rowing. There must have been some reason why she wote in that impassioned and very detailed way.

Do you really think that, after 35 years of this, that crochet is the answer?

I agree that OP appears to live thorough her husband but does say she has some friends of her own that her husband “doesn’t mind her seeing”. How generous of him.

I do wonder if we have a generational divide in the comments here. I often have the impression that though this is a forum for people age 50 and over, the majority of regular contributors are a good 25-30 years older, That’s a whole generation and one which may have attitudes that are more conservative about the roles in a marriage. After all, it is people age 70 or over who solidly vote Conservative (and increasingly Reform), regressive parties which don’t want things to change.

I find it quite shocking that some have described this man as a diamond. Why? Just because he’s made a lot of money and bought a big house? Shall we call Trump and Musk diamonds too?

In the years leading up to 1937 and the new Matrimonial Causes Act when judges were considering the extended grounds for divorce, the most contentious ground was cruelty. The other three were matters of “fact”; adultery, desertion and insanity if declared by a medical professional. Cruelty was considered subjective. What one person regarded as cruel, another might not. Some judges argued that there should be different thresholds for cruelty depending on social class. Some judges opined that working class people enjoyed being cruel to one another. Most argued that men of all classes had a right to control their wives in the home. They discussed how that control might be achieved and when it would constitute cruelty.

The point I am trying to make is that these men deliberating in the 1930s, and they were all men, grew up in the Victorian era and had Victorian attitudes about social class and the position of men and women in a household. There was no doubt that wives were seen as subservient.

And that’s what I see here. Victorian attitudes both in the husband and some of the responses. Women should find a hobby to distract them from a controlling husband. Someone upthread said OP should go and find a room to hide in. For goodness sake.

The man is 73 but OP is only 60. She isn’t even statutory retirement age. By the time she is, he’ll be 80. That’s a big age gap. Age gaps which may not have seemed so huge when younger, can seem much more so as we age not just physically but in attitude. As many have attested here in the past, the older a man gets the more difficult he can become (and women too).

OP, you have made it clear you do not want a divorce saying it would be your worse fear but you haven’t said why. What are you frightened of? You are effectively saying that you fear (dread) the future with him and you fear a future without him. There is something very wrong here but now you are rowing back and defending him, only you can know what that is.

There’s probably little point in continuing to flog this here on a board where people are in strong disagreement and giving conflicting advice on limited and now conflicting information.

If you have the means to seek professional counselling without him knowing and making a song and dance about it, I think that would be your best bet. You wouldn’t have posted in the first place if something wasn’t wrong.