I have been wondering about this as I have been hearing the evidence given by the parent and brother of the Southport killer and also reading the recent thread on GN from a mother with a deviant son, and also thinking of my experience with a case of elder abuse some years ago when I worked for Age Concern. An adult son lived with his parents who held them almost as terrified prisoners. they told me, on the phone that they both wanted to die. The case was known to all the services, police, social services and now Age Concern, but none of us could do anything because the parents would not lay any charges against him, would not separate themselves from him and kept insisting that the all their problems would be solved if only he could get some counselling.
This leaves me wondering about the extent of parental love, when parents try to protect violent children from the results of their misbehaviour, who continue to love and support them when they are the victims.
is there something primal that quite literally makes us see our children as an extension of ourselves and believe that the evil in them must have physically come from us, so that we are the evil in their lives, even, when we are also thevictims of these children.
We hear so much of parents who turn their backs on their children, for little reason or none at all. I cannot help wondering why some parents hang in until their children kill them or others.
I do hope that in this thread we will not discuss details of specific current cases. I had to mention them to explain what I do not understand and talk more of how these parents can keep loving children who are so deviant, whatever the cause.
Maelil
…the family’s room
There’s only 1 family.
Oh for heaven’s sake! Is it up to you to correct people’s grammar/spelling?
I've just been away for a week to New York with my adult son who has mental health issues. He doesn't get away very often and I thought it would be nice to treat him. During the trip he was great company at times but he had a number of quite upsetting tantrums because of something I said or didn't say. The first one was when he was having a problem with his achilles after a lot of walking. I asked him if he was OK and whether he wanted to take the subway instead of walking. He told me to F off and stop hovering over him. Another time, on a coach trip, he refused to have anything to do with me, I still don't know why. He also told me there was no point walking with me as "we don't have anything to say to each other". The worst was on the last day when he told me to f* off again, then disappeared for hours, which was worrying. We were due to go to a show in the evening but he refused to go and I was so upset I missed it too. The whole thing has really upset me, not because of the cost of it all, but I keep thinking whether I could have done anything differently and how I can help. I'm not asking for sympathy and I never ever tried to make him feel guilty, eg by mentioning the cost or telling him how sad it made me. I'm just wondering whether anyone else has experienced anything similar? There's no-one I can talk to about it, I pretended to my partner and my other children that it all went swimmingly.
M0nica
You cannot ban online sellers who operate from other countries, like the USA, China or similar.
You could stop online sellers from any country advertising knives, just like any other illegal item.
Or do you think it would be a good idea to allow firearms to be traded online, it’s exactly the same thing, household knives could still be sold in store with the correct ID
You could stop online sellers from any country advertising knives, just like any other illegal item.
How? It would take a UN agreement to do that, and how would you enforce it. It would just shift to the black web
Or do you think it would be a good idea to allow firearms to be traded online, it’s exactly the same thing, household knives could still be sold in store with the correct ID
What makes you think firearms are not traded online\\\/ \if you know where to look on the black web, they are there.
Olivia51
You did nothing wrong.
But you kind of bit off more than you could chew.
Going so far away but mainly because you were on your own with him. Unsupported.
Dealing with people with mental problems is always tricky. Often baffling.
As you know.
I think the project was over ambitious.
How about a day out to the seaside.
Or even a short coach holiday in UK. Then if things get too bad you can take your leave.
But most of all you need another person to go too.
All the best.
A few thoughts.
The first is that behaviour may become gradually worse over a long period of time. It’s possible that a family doesn’t realise quite how far things have gone until there’s a crisis. What might seem far from normal to the rest of us has become normalised for them.
The second is simply that they are scared and will do everything they can to keep the peace. This is a feature of abusive relationships of all kinds. There is also sometimes a kind of co-dependency in abusive relationships. In these cases the parents may still feel needed, even if the demands made on them are damaging and unhealthy.
Finally, it takes a certain level of capability/resourcefulness and emotional strength to challenge very difficult behaviour. I suspect that some people simply lack this. They may justify their lack of action, to themselves and others, in terms of putting their child first. And as several people have said, it’s often very difficult to get the right kind of support. (Another issue is those families and communities where there is little respect for the police or the justice system, and there have been several incidents where families have protected their children by destroying evidence, lying about their whereabouts etc.)
Perhaps the answer is that there may be no limit to parental love, but that parents also have a wider duty for the safety and well-being of others, including other members of their family, and to themselves. The question is in how these are balanced.
M0nica
^You could stop online sellers from any country advertising knives, just like any other illegal item.^
How? It would take a UN agreement to do that, and how would you enforce it. It would just shift to the black web
Or do you think it would be a good idea to allow firearms to be traded online, it’s exactly the same thing, household knives could still be sold in store with the correct ID
What makes you think firearms are not traded online\\\/ \if you know where to look on the black web, they are there.
I’m surprised you have knowledge of the black web, the black economy is rampant in the UK but there is no reason you can’t control the mainstream market.
Seems to me every teenage boy knows how to get on the blacknet, and do it frequently for all kinds of things, weapons and pornography
Im new here & hoping someone can help me. My husband & I have been married for 18 years. He has never had kids and I have 3 children who are now grown. My grandson who is 11, get off of the bus at our house after school so I can keep him a few hours until my daughter gets off of work. My husband hated this as he said I should have discussed it with him first. It is my gson so I didn’t feel a discussion was needed & he doesn’t have anything to do with him which hurts me so badly.
I have two other gc that he spent all kinds of money on taking them places & being involved. For whatever reason he just has nothing to do with the youngest.
I have tried repeatedly over the years suggesting things or trying to involve him in doing something with us but to no avail. We are currently house hunting in another area so that means I would need to go to the school and get him (which is 15 min away) my husband made this big speech about it being a big commitment & it eats into my work day (which is flexible I work for myself) that why couldn’t my gs stay at his house by himself for a few hours till my daughter got home. I asked him directly…what his problem was & he didn’t respond. I told him i wont move cause its too stressful and will cause problems between us. He also had an issue with that.
Saying well I guess you can give up your dreamhouse just so you can be available for (W) Its like I cant win. I just dont understand why he has to give me such a hard time about this or anytime I want to help my kids. Im tired and I just want peace.
Did you actually ask him outright why he dislikes your grandson so much? Or did you just ask what the problem was? There is a difference. Ask him directly if anything has happened between them. If he says no, then ask him what has made him act the way he does towards the child. I suppose it’s possible he just doesn’t like him., and perhaps even he doesn’t know why.
How does your grandson act around his granddad? Does he want to do things with him? Does he interact with him?
There may be no way of resolving this, in which case you might be put in the position of choosing between them. (I know which one I’d choose!)
If talking to your husband doesn’t resolve the issue, that may well be what will have to happen. I wish you luck. You have been put in an impossible position.
Reported.
David49- "I’m surprised you have knowledge of the black web, the black economy is rampant in the UK but there is no reason you can’t control the mainstream market."
M0nica Mon 10-Nov-25 13:46:39
"Seems to me every teenage boy knows how to get on the blacknet/darknet, and do it frequently for all kinds of things, weapons and pornography".
Monica is right, the blacknet/darkent is becoming ever more prevalent. Teenage boys do not necessarily even need any knowledge of the dark net as they are easily targeted for all manner of things. I am an Appropriate Adult volunteer and support juveniles and vulnerable adults during police interviews and during their time in custody.
Recently supported and advised a young adolescent who was targeted- by way of being sent a pop us message during a video game. The message invited him onto a website to meet similar age teenager girls. The adolescent clicked the link, and found suggestive ( but not pornographic ) images of similar aged adolescent girls. He was now in the dark web, was groomed ( of course it wasn't a girl ) into sharing an inappropriate image of himself then blackmailed and coerced to recruit other young adolescent girls to share their increasingly sexual images (to be sold). The cycle went on until he was eventually arrested for downloading pornographic images and coercing and recruiting others. It all began by him clicked unwittingly into the dark web......
The adolescent came from a good home, a good family and attended a good school where he had been doing well. His parents were devastated.
Knife crime is rampant, gun crime not uncommon and yes, on arrest the teenage boys have good knowledge how to buy weapons online. The police are unable to control this access.....
Don't forget how influential friends can be, at certain times of development.
Also, falling for the wrong partner.
I said the same to my siblings when I was left to bring them up!
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