Teaching grandchildren Christian values

United Reformed! That's what it is. (not easy to remember.We just called our Congregational church 'the Cong'!)

The church I have most to do with is very community based Greatnan. You get all sorts. I'm not sure there is a really 'posh' person amongst them. All are welcome and all come! They have the same sort of activities as I remember from my childhood church - craft evenings, socials, outings. It's not C of E though. It's the one that's a bit like Congregational. (can't remember the name at the mo - senior moment - it'll come to me)

I still sing hymns and carols as I drive my car - I don't believe the lyrics any more than I believe the lyrics of some love songs I sing,I just like the tunes.
My sister belongs to a woman's group that provides just the kind of communal activities and friendship that used to be provided by churches. In general, I have found that most organised social groups, including those affiliated to churches, are not well attended by people at the bottom of the socio-economic pecking order. They seem to rely more on informal contacts with friends and family.

I totally agree with Mishap on this point:

This is church as community - and it would be great if this could be fostered outside of religion.

Wouldn't it be lovely? Go to secular church, have some music, sing in the choir if so inclined, play in the band, maybe a little talk on philosophy, hear what local activities are going on, and have tea & biccies afterwards while chatting to the 'vicar' or co-ordinator or whatever.

As some of you will be aware from my previous posts, I have huge concerns about how religion is taught to children.

I had a long discussion about it with one of my D's yesterday.

You will be surprised to learn that I did take my children to the local church when they were young and they sang in the choir. It offered amazing musical opportunities. And since the church has nicked all the best music it was a good place to start! They sang and played in the Faure Requiem and the Rutter Requiem and lots of other works - they loved it! Interestingly my D also said that she liked the way it gave her a circle of friends of her own age and also of what she called "aunties" - adults who knew her and cared about her.

This is church as community - and it would be great if this could be fostered outside of religion.

As you can imagine, the children received very liberal information from us about religion and indeed the vicar (female) of the church they sang at was herself very liberal-minded and did not mind at all that they were there for the music. She was in favour of the ordination of gays and of women and of gay marriage in church. And she had very open views about other religions and those with no religion at all.

I asked my D how she felt about the religious content and she said that a lot of it just washed by her - she did not take it very seriously. She just enjoyed the music.

Interestingly she also learned about hypocrisy - some of the members of the church were pillars of the community on the outside but not so great when you got to know them - that was an interesting lesson for them!

I think my humanism has consolidated itself over the years and probably I would not have taken them to the church choir if they were little now - but it was intriguing to me to hear her talk about what she gained from it - so maybe it was not such a bad thing. The children seem to have a balanced view of religions now, aware of the grim realities of persecution etc. but with happy memories of the music and the sense of community. They are none of them churchgoers or believers, but are very tolerant and caring people, so that will do for me. I am not sure what is meant by Christian values - but I am happy with the values that seem to guide my offsprings' lives.

Looking back over the history of oppression and abuse perpetrated by various branches of Christianity (and other religions, of course) Christian values are the last things I would want to teach my grandchildren. Humanist values will suffice for me.

I haven't taught my kids christian values either, mainly because I don't know of any. I have taught them good values though, you know, about the value of honesty and kindness and such like.

To get back to the subject, I haven't taught my grandchildren christian values, but my little grandsons do ask me to read two nativity books they have, amongst a large collection of children's books. 'Read the baby Jesus story, nana!' I find that the values I and their parents want to instill in them are found from a variety of sources.

Carol, I think there's a certain amount of mischief to be made on this thread but perhaps we have exhausted it now! By the way, I was 'born' a Liberal but migrated to Labour, then SDP then Lib Dems and now? Huh! Probably in a state of political agnosticism.

Carol that put a smile on my face.
granbunny I do hope that today finds you happy and in good health.

bags I was off on a flight of fancy about the possibilities of trans-political reassignment, should I have produced a genetically programmed Labour child who knew at heart they were a Lib Dem! You have killed it stone dead!

Think I'll find another thread where there's some fun to be had

ha! pedants!

To indoctrinate is to teach (someone) to fully accept the ideas, opinions, and beliefs of a particular group and to not consider other ideas, opinions, and beliefs. In the days of limited communication I am sure this was an easy thing to do, but with the advent of the television/web etc. I think it is highly unlikely that children will not be exposed to opinions, ideas and beliefs that differ from their parents'.

I love Jingl's postings

I suppose it is a little like politics! Any way the good seargeants child wouldbe the same today only coalised?

Probably Carol. They've might have the same outlook on the world as you! It could be genetic.

The catholic thing is different. I'm going by the rules of the Catholic church. A baby, I think, is deemed to be Catholic if it is born to practising catholics.

Oh sod it. Who knows!

Who effing cares!

Neither osmosis nor diffusioon, but a process called indoctrination, as you all know full well.

Where all GN conversations go! Round in ever decreasing circles like certain bird! Or if you want to be more classical an ouroboros

Depends on whether it's given or received - where is this conversation going???

Osmosis or diffuse?

I feel a new thread coming on.....do you have to make a conscious decision to believe in a religion or do you osmose it at birth?

Oooh, does that mean my children were all born Labour voters Jingl?

jings, that makes about as much sense as WS Gilbert's
'....every boy and every gal
That's born into this world alive
Is either a little Liberal
Or else a little Conservative.'

bagitha I think if a child is born to full on, practising Catholic parents, then you could fairly say the baby was born Catholic.

Elegran if you read this, I didn't see your post at the time, and it's very interesting!

Yes, the comma does make a big difference - "God made them, high or lowly". There are two ways to take that and I think we do take it probably the wrong way!

But I can't agree with Mr Frost about the 'ordered their estate' bit. I don't think you can get away from the meaning of that.

Very interesting.