New life after death?

Ok then em...
I had no intention to be patronising - I did not say that this was a particular fault of " silly girls" I have met plenty of men who have similar ideas. And... I will say no more than "kettle pot black etc" about your " be a good boy" comment - if you hoped to offend -bang on.

As for sarcasm - No.
My choice of words in the example drawn from my own grandfather's death and my near in date birth was to show that If I wished I could repackage those same dates as "proof" of "one in one out".

As I have said - believe what you want if it helps you.
As a rule "in fact" I tend to leave the supertitious to their beliefs as it (so obviously) upsets them to have those ideas questioned, doubted or confronted with contrary facts.

Provided, that is, that those beliefs are not harmful to themselves or others.
My own mother's alzheimer's dementia was accelerated by her sure certain passionate faith in spiritualism and a belief in a parallel world - ie the afterlife. She all too easily locked herself into a world crowded out with her dead relatives (mother father and a brother who died as a baby before I was born) These people became more real to her that those of us who were alive!
She would have been mentally more healthy for longer had she not had a "ready made off the shelf" alternative reality.

Now, where I have a real problem is with the use of the words
"ostensibly scientific evidence, statistics".

There is nothing "ostensible" about them at all!
They are what they are!
Facts, numerical truths, which run directly contrary to the belief that when
"one soul leaves this earth -another comes into it"

And ignoring them....
Just saying " I don't care - I know that when my gran died that...."
Won't go make them go away...

DCMG Although I am not necessarily in tune with those GN who are contributing to this thread, I would like to think that they should be left in peace to share with each other whatever feelings make them comfortable. Your rude comments are obnoxious. Perhaps you should find some DIY to keep you out of mischief.

DCMG You will certainly loose out on the vote here,even though my thoughts are different to the majority GNers are entitled to their own thoughts,and they should be respected by everyone.It would be a very sad world if every one had the same taste and theories so as super says off you pop and do something constructive.

It does get rather wearing to see debate descend into rudeness. Lots of Gransnetters have made it clear that politeness doesn't cost anything and there is room and a welcome for everyone's opinion. Otherwise, it can look like mischief is afoot, to say the least!

I'm neither superstitious nor religious which is why I have not chosen to contribute to this thread. DCMG, why not just follow the old lady's example?

DCMG I don't think you have quite grasped that we are not having either a scientific debate or an in-depth seminar on deeply-held religious beliefs. The phenomenon that you witness here is a 'chat amongst friends' who enjoy exchanging views of interest, who respect the views of those who don't wish to become involved and who do not like to be patronised. Therefore I concur with the suggestions that perhaps you'd like to go and play elsewhere. Please don't feel that we are relying on you to put us right on the subject.
Check again your earlier post and you'll perhaps understand that might see the 'shiver and spooky' comments as sarcastic and surely by now you have grasped that we do not like to be addressed as 'girls'.

.....am I the only one who is completely bemused and mystified by DCMG's posts? I really haven't a clue what he's on about - maybe I just have a blank on this one?

I am with him as far as his facts go, though perhaps he could have put them across a tad more sensitively!
I certainly agree that so-called mediums are usually con merchants who prey on the vulnerable.
People believe the strangest things when they are grieving - Gloria Hunniford thinks her daughter sent her a white feather after her death. I am of the 'when you're gone, you're gone' school of thought but if others get some comfort from their beliefs, good luck to them.

Wow em perhaps I'd better go away as well then!

Frankly I am far more annoyed by the patronising rudeness than by the fact that folk are disagreeing.I have absolutely no problem at all in reading posts which don't chime with my own views but I do object to this bloke trying to tell 'the girls' that they've got it all wrong. No-one is evangelising here - simply exchanging views and sentiments. I welcome any contribution pro or anti but I don't welcome the know-it-all attitude he displays. OP started with 'it seems to me...' and the thread meandered gently on from there - not at all threatening or in any way confrontational until DCMG's contribution! Surely the message is that on GN - if you don't like the topic being discussed then go and find one of more interest without necessarily derailing the original one. OR feel free to join the discussion but find a more acceptable way to put your point of view,

em it was the manner in which DCMG voiced his opinion that ruffled my feathers. We're all entitled to a point of view - a little diplomacy when expressing it, costs nothing.

Shall we just ignore him now?

Aye!

Is it 'silly season?' We do seem to be bumping up against a few mischief makers just lately. I agree with the above posts, let's continue to share and debate our views - all of which are welcome and listened to, and ignore rudeness.

Here’s an example of why I think this superstitious belief dangerous and harmful.
It’s a true story that really happened, no word of a lie, no exaggeration.
We have a friend, Hilary – bright clever lively.

By her own admission Hilary was a “daddy’s little girl” incredibly close to her father -adored him, she would phone him every day from wherever she was.
When she was about 30 sadly her dad suddenly died, dropped dead of a heart attack, no warning, he was in his late 50s.

Hilary was totally devastated.

Move on five years. Hilary is spending £250 a month going to a psychic medium who lets her “talk” to her dad. She goes once a week.
Hilary and the long standing living together boyfriend decide to get married. Let’s leave aside that he had to go with her to the psychic and get dad’s "agreement".

The doting Grandma and Hilary are having a girls’ chat...
“So....why are you finally getting married then?”
“we both decided that we wanted children and thought being married was right. I asked the medium about it and she said that if I had a son my dad would come back to me - he’d be reborn in my baby”

What sort of foundation for a relationship between mother and child would that be?
Not just unhealthy or harmful - but sick.

As I say - that is a TRUE story.

Have we really got to be good little grannies all the time? All sweetness and light and finger-down-throat, artificial expressions of love?

dontcallme gramps has made some valid and interesting comments.

This website could get so boring!

What the "girls" on here have picked up on and DCMG has not is the way a baby can fill a gap left after a family member has died, and the way love for someone lost can be .... I was going to say transferred to them, but it is really a new love growing to heal the pain of the loss of the old one.

I do agree that an unscrupulous "medium" can exploit the grief of the bereaved, in many ways.

dcmg was not making his comments very subtly, but he does have a point.

In some ways, every death is making way for the next generation - if it did not there would be standing room only on this earth.

The general timing is a result of the spacing of generations. How old are most grandparents when their grandchildren are born? Answer - getting on a bit and quite likely to reach the end of their lifespan at the very time that their children are having children. A couple of centuries ago it was parents who died while they were still producing children.

How likely is it that a death will be close in time to a birth in the same family? That can be worked out by using statistics which can be found with a bit of effort, there are demographic statistics on just about everything we do (DCMG has found some interesting ones, and I don't think he invented them).

My guess is that it could be proved that the stories in these comments stick in our minds because of the sad coincidences, but are not any more than coincidence. But then, we are not talking about "proof" here, are we, but about emotional truth.

Thank you Elegran for a perfect example of a post which expresses a point of view neatly and politely and without being patronising or condescending. It is possible to disagree without falling out. I reiterate - this thread is not launching a religious crusade it's simply people remarking that some find comfort in life's coincidences. I don't think anyone here has seriously suggested reincarnation as explanation. I suggest that some should simply opt out instead of trying to convince everyone of their point of view. It's self-evident that if the elders don't die off then we face global disaster. BUT THAT WAS NOT THE POINT OF THE OP, was it?

Going away from the topic here, I find the birthday coincidence fascinating. It is completely counter-intuitive, but the chances of there being two people in a class of about 30 with the same birthday is rather more than 50/50. It can be worked out mathematically (by those who are good at maths) but it can also be shown empirically if you go round 30 people and note down all their birthdays - not the year, just the day and month. You are more likely to find a match than not.

This was done with each new class by a lecturer at our teacher training college, and two of our class were amazed to find they shared a birthday - year as well as they were the same intake. One of my 22 cousins was born on my birthday. I was on a coach trip and found someone who shared not just the day and month but the same year. It was not spooky, just statistical.

Most of us do not understand statistics. Lottery numbers are said to be "lucky" if they have come up several times, and if they have not come up, then it must be "their turn". Tossing a coin has (about) a 50/50 chance of coming down heads or tails, but after 99 heads, it is still only 50/50 whether the 100th toss is heads or tails. Each toss, each lottery fall is a separate case.

I certainly found it difficult to grasp when a mathematically-minded friend was discussing the lottery and said that choosing a wide spread of numbers had no more chance of winning than 1,2,3,4,5,6. (Or any other 6-number sequence!) Can't quite get my head round that!

Human beings like things to be scattered widely and neatly, but the random number apparatus does not give a

Each ball is chosen separately, with no reference to the one or ones before. so you are as well to stick a pin in the card. Using the same numbers every week is as good a choice as any - at least you don't have to check the card each time, you know instantly whether you have won or not.

Probably not. The odds are against you, and as my grandfather used to say, when did you last see a bookie on the dole? It did not stop him putting a bit of money on the geegees (he lived near Brighton racecourse) but he used to study their form and their pedigree carefully before placing his (mostly losing) bets..

This is all getting very complex and well away from the original thread.

Death of loved one heightens our senses and I believe makes us more aware of things, aren't we just trying to make sense of the loss?

I arrived at the hospital shortly after my mother died and I desperately wanted to see her 'before she went too far away.' Strange as I have no belief in an afterlife and yet when a few days later the terrible Dunblane massacre took place I thought she was waiting for those children and would care for them.
I guess I wanted to think something good could come from my tragedy.

It is amazing how little idea most people have of probability . I saw a 90-year old woman on Deal or No Deal bet £90,000 on a 50/50 chance of winning £250,000. She lost. Of course she was being egged on by the crowd and told she was 'brave' by the odious Noel Edmonds.
I love numbers - they fascinate me. There was a very interesting TV programme about the 'magic' numerical relationships that occur in nature, such as in the way that the outside rings of a pineapple follow a fixed formula.

Talking of coincidences (who is? well, I am!) I worked for a man in Monaco who shared my birthday, (not the year) which was 27th September, and his car registration number was MC2727. He thought that was very significant - I thought it was a coincidence.
When you consider the billions of events which take place all over the world every second, it would be odd if there were no coincidences.

There's one thing about all this that's a dead cert: we all 'create' new life when we die. Think worms and daisies, or that ash is good fertiliser.

Yes, that is some comfort, bagitha. I carry a donor card (although in France they operate an opt-out system) and I hope they will be able to use something to help otherw when I die.