Thanking God, when it was really science that helped.

I am sure that Sbagran is right - it is unimaginable that this young man and his family did not give thanks where it was due- to the doctors, nurses, paramedics etc. But the thread is about whether his recovery was an "act of God" or the work of these good dedicated people who cared for him.

If one believes in a god as creator, then indeed it is appropriate to be glad that these good people were born with the potential to work hard to learn the skills to save this young man. But it begs the question - if the god is creator, then he/she also created this young man's heart defect - how does a believer respond to that conundrum?

This is not religion-bashing - I have enormous respect for others' beliefs (with a few exceptions where child mutilation is involved!), but a genuine attempt to understand how believers deal with these dilemmas/inconsistencies etc.
Maybe, like the archbishop of Canterbury, they will just say that they do not know, in which case we are all in the same boat - I do not know either!!

The concept of free will always seems like another cop-out to me - do we have the free will to choose that the AIDS virus should not exist, or that the laws of physics should make tsunamis impossible, or that children should not get cancer? We certainly have free will to choose how we behave; but we are not free to alter the facts of nature as we see them before us with all their beauties and agonies.

I am delighted that this young man has recovered and rejoice with his family, as I am sure we all do.

Quite nite!

I hope I have helped people in my life too - but not because any supernatural being wanted me to, just because I am human.

Who says we have no scholars and theologians?
Of course we will never reach agreement - faith is not susceptible to reason - but that does not mean that we can't debate all the issues.
I am always very intersted to hear what believers actually believe - there no longer seems to be any one accepted idea of what god is - you might say there is 'pick and mix' religion, with everyone choosing the bits that suit their own lifestyle, needs and beliefs.

Being confrontational! (unlike me!) why HE? The original supreme beings were female. Astarte, mother earth, Isis. To name a few.
When did we let men take over the creator role?
Just wondering?
[ confused]

To quote some graffiti I read years ago:
God Is Black And She Is A woman!

Just to illustrate that unless we have scholars and theologians on our site there is no point trying to argue this one.

That should have been 'we would know no different'

Quite. If God were all-powerful, everything in the world would be perfect, there'd be no wars or famine and it would all be wonderful (?). We would know no better, like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

I don't believe in 'the devil' really!

But evil exists in mankind. Perhaps God isn't that all-powerful. Why should he be? He gave us free will.

Quite. I give thanks that I was given talents and can use them. I hope I have helped people in my life and that I still can.

I can't believe that all this 'religion bashing' seems to have sprung from the fact that Fabrice Muamba 'apparently' did not thank the doctors and medics for saving his life.
Are we all seriously saying that everything we read in the papers is factually correct? I feel sure that not only Fabrice himself, but also members of his family, his friends and his team-mates have all sincerely thanked everyone involved in saving his life and for their part in his recovery.
That boy has religious faith - many may not share it - I do - but each to his own. I believe the presence of those experts, the brilliance of their expertise were sent to be there when needed, their brains and talents given to them by God - but I accept that some don't share that belief.
Isn't it a shame that nowadays everything is focussed on the bad things that happen? I am NO WAY condoning the various scandals and wrong things that are committed by the minority, in the name of, or under the umbrella of, religion.
A small number of football fans commit sometimes horrendous offences 'in the name of' their particular club - murder, woundings, assaults, damage etc. Does that mean that all the 'fans' of that particular club are equally evil?
Can't we all just wonder at his amazing recovery?

Yes I am afraid this central tenet of religions always eluded my understanding.

Premise One: God is an all-powerful being
Premise Two: ghastly things happen, but they are not God's fault.

This does not compute for me!

Inventing a devil to explain this is simply a cop-out. And worse still blaming all evil on original sin.

Well said Greatnan!

The devil is responsible for the bad things Greatnan. Forces of evil, don't you know?!

It's God who gives the brain power and the abilities to the medical people.

People's beliefs are fine - each to their own. It's religion that annoys me. Most religions are controlled by people who love power and want to control everyone. They lay down rules and demand that every follows them otherwise they are sinners and 'never reach Heaven'. Seriously!? If there is a god then surely he should be good and kind and accept everyone. But no - there appear to be several gods for all the differents religions and they all hate each other - just don't believe it!

Oh dear - that is an example of religion as a mental illness.

I used to have a friend who got so involved in her faith that everything good was a gift from God and if something bad happened to her she believed the Devil was challenging her. I say 'used to have a friend' because she decided , with the 'help and advice' of her Church that the only people who were truly her friends held the same beliefs as her and anyone like me who challenged her were speaking on behalf of the Devil and were better avoided.

Yeah, I know -pointless isn't it? I just felt angry for that doctor being ignored in the article.

Muamba of course can't help it - he's clearly been steeped in a belief system, and it is part of the fabric of his life. I'm not always sure if it a good thing when the veil is lifted from your brain and you see through it all. But I really feel that logic is better than kidding yourself.

At least people like me understand the sanctity of life, and would never sacrifice this life, or agree with anyone else doing it, for an entry into an imaginary paradise.

Joan, you are trying to apply reason to an essentially unreasonable belief!
I once asked what Christians did at the Harvest Festival when the harvest had failed - did they blame their god? No, apparently he is responsible for all the good things in the world and none of the bad. I wish I could find myself in that position. (I didn't get any answers, of course).

Given that it took 78 minutes to resuscitate him it was the training and medical knowledge of the medical staff that saved him despite the best efforts of his god to see him off.... or maybe the almighty is actually a Spurs fan?

Yes, of course, that's how religion gets the praise when scientific intervention did the work.

I am still angry that this article ignored the doctor who ensured that Muamba stayed alive long enough for the paramedics.

Well, if he has great faith, why not thank God? Of course the doctor saved his life by his actions, but perhaps Muamba considers the fact that the doctor was actually there was a Godsend? I'm sure he thanked the doctor personally as well.

Sorry - forgot to convert link:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133432/Fabrice-Muamba-relives-terrifying-moment-collapsed-pitch.html