That man Dawkins

In short, saying one should respect all beliefs is politically correct garbage – i.e. incorrect.

By the way, do all those people who say we should respect all beliefs respect That Man Dawkins' beliefs? Just asking. Because if they did, they wouldn't feel the need to keep asking him to shut up – beliefs worthy of respect are worth listening to.

Should say 'those of the people who blew up...' (their beliefs)

Not that one respects the holders of such beliefs either, when they abuse the rest of us.

Not all beliefs are worthy of respect. Not sure all people are either. I've never felt the need to respect hooligans who set fire to embassies, for instance. Actually, I think it's morally wrong to put up with evil beliefs and evil actions that result from them.

Does anyone respect Hitler's beliefs? Or Pol Pot's? Or the people who blew up the Twin Towers on 11 September 2001?

Sometimes, it's right To stand up and be counted.

If we all had your attitude, Beth, our world would be great! Love your reminiscence about the cook and the Koran.

I try to be fine about other peoples beliefs, and usually I am. Then someone gets all holier-than-thou, or causes misery of others on religious grounds, or acts as if their beliefs are the only ones possible, and my claws start to unfurl and steam comes out of my ears......

I am an atheist, and just don't understand how any one can really believe that there is a heaven waiting for them when they die.
How ever, Every one is entitled to their own opinion,. My eldest son is a Christian, I am quite happy with that, indeed I wish I had his faith.
I can shout my corner if I have to, but surely your beliefs are not for shouting.
One of the loveliest men I ever met was the cook bearer we had when I was a child, growing up in , what was then British India, I loved him, more than I did my parents at the time, We would sit for hours on the cook house steps, and he would tell me stories from the Koran. A wonderful religion.
I thought of them as stories, as I do when reading the bible, yes, I have.
Let people believe in what they want, and let us respect their beliefs, I am sure we can learn from them. Beth

Thanks for the reviews.

What Greatnan said! It was quite boring and I found Rabbi Sacks talked past the scientists he was supposed to be interviewing, and avoided their counter-question about his belief in events described in the scriptures. His question 'do you tell your children stories?' could have any number of meanings and answers, and could have been usefully explored, but he didn't take it further. Frustrating. I stayed up to watch it, too

No, I didn't think it was very good. The Rabbi tried to get some controversy going but the three scientists were extremely polite and would not be drawn into criticising believers. He seemed to overlook the fact that science is still in its infancy, so of course it does not have all the answers, but at least it is asking the questions.
He completely contradicted himself about a parent's right to indoctrinate their children.
He seemed to think that one bit of research showing that believers (he didn't state which religion) were charitable proved that what they believed was true.
He said that religion had not threatened science - try telling that to Galileo and the people who were 'converted' by the Inquisition!
He dodged a bit when RD asked him outright if he believed everything in the bible actually happened, falling back on the line that stories can be used to tell a truth. Really?
I would say the score was Scientists 3, Rabbi 0.

Was it good?

I see there are still complaints elsewhere about some of us arguing about religion. Sigh. We're allowed to! No-one is forced to read this thread . Lil's Bar doesn't appeal to me much so, guess what, I don't go there. So easy!

Thanks, I've just turned over to watch it. I was about to go to bed

I saw that was on, but don't want to stay up to watch. Must record it.

BBC 1 tonight at 11.15
Science versus religion.
Jonathan Sachs, Richard Dawkins, Susan Greenfield, Jim Al-Khahili.

I joined the girl guides while at junior school. I got my nice navy blue uniform and was put in cornflower group.

BUT - it turned out I'm a clockwork orange - I can't march. My military husband and sons tell me that there is one in every platoon, but back then I was spoiling it for the other girl guides - they subtly made that clear, so I stopped going. I would look at my uniform in my drawer and feel guilty about the waste of Mum's money, but I never told her why I couldn't go. Ridiculous as it sounds today, I was deeply ashamed.

I asked my menfolk how they handled the clockwork oranges of their military experiences, and they all said fellow trainees helped them, without giving them a hard time. Terry remembers going outside after hours and drilling the lad between two of them till the penny dropped and he could march in step.

Anyway, just as well I left as I very unexpectedly passed my 11+ and ended up with loads of homework and no spare time. Poor old Mum missed out again; she'd already knitted me a cardigan in the secondary modern colours! ( She had 4 kids: the practical boy, the bright boy, the bright girl and the one who was good with her hands - me!!!) (but clearly not good with my feet)

I was in the Girls' Guildry, a sister organisation to the Boys' Brigade. That was not militaristic, but we did do marching,with neat quarter turns on command and so on. I can still do the 90 degree turn on the heel of one foot and toe of the other and then straight into leftright without breaking step. Much like line dancing and I enjoyed it.

One of Baden Powell's great grandsons was charged recently for the murder of his wife. He was an active member of the local scouting group.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/from-role-model-to-accused-murderer-20120615-20fa5.html

My son was in the boys brigade , didn"t know it was particulary military !

@LILYGRAN "Do scouts still promise to do their best for God and the Queen?"

I remember it as "...to do my duty to god and the king" (dates me, doesn't it!)

It was the Wolf Cubs that did their best - Akela saying "Dyb dyb dyb" and the pack responding "We'll dob, dob, dob" - Do Your Best and Do Our Best respectively.

For the more militarist there was the Boys' Brigade, of course.

Feetlebaum
Sixer of the Whites, Patrol Leader of the Otters, retired...

Good call Lilygran , I had forgotten that .

Correct.

But boys can't join the Guides. Even if they wanted to.

i know that bags , times have to change , we can"t be stuck in a time warp as maybe some are !

nonu it's for girls too now. Change happens.

Yes, but the scout association is so desperate for adult leaders that they have begun to allow humanists with no religious affiliation, like me, to be full members without making that promise. There has been no deception on my part; they know I'm an atheist but I'm accepted as a full member for the following reasons:
- I stood in to help out when there was no cub leader four years ago
- there are still no new volunteers
- I've said I am a humanist (an atheist humanist, yes, but still a humanist)
- they've decided that in desperate circumstances (the movement will die out without leaders) needs must so they can include 'humanist' in the exclusive list of acceptable labels
- I'm good at the job

The bigwigs blether on about "scouting for all" while excluding certain sections of society. The grass roots adult scouts are great and generally have no nonsense about them.

When Baden Powell started the scout movement it was assumed that everyone had a god of some sort. Nowadays you can't assume that. The movement needs to catch up. It will, or it will fade out.

It's starting already. (Well, they've accepted me for a start, and there are others like me). A scouting friend in Vancouver recently told me about the "Inclusive Scouting Movement" that has started over there whose 'cause' is stated thus: "Active and former Scouts and Scouters working to enhance the scouting program by embracing diversity." I've sent them a donation.

The ironic thing (well one of the ironic things) is that one of the training modules for scouters is called "Valuing Diversity" and yet, in reality, the Association would still like to exclude certain types of people, in particular atheists and gay people.

Meanwhile, in the real world of scouting, local districts fudge things so that they can hang onto good scouts like me. Scouting doesn't make people good; good people make good scouts.

Yeah right , whatever !! The scout movement is a wonderful thing , for young boys !!

It is not a motto. Is the scout motto still Be Prepared?
And why should a child who did not believe in any god have to take such an oath.