That man Dawkins

Greatnan if you believe in the universal church, as I do, every evidence of fracture is depressing. It's even more depressing when it's inside the same denomination. It's very good that Christian students should find a church where they will feel loved and supported; it's very sad that they can't walk into any church and feel the same. And this splintering applies to all the religions I know anything about. A Jewish friend joked about the fact that in any Jewish community one of the shuls will be the one "we" don't go to. A Welsh Methodist friend had made exactly the same joke about the chapels in the town where he lived, some years ago. And as the attacks criticisms of religion by secularists increase, the worse the splintering seems to get. What we need is unity. On the other hand, there is lots of evidence of different religions working more closely together, at least in the UK. Perhaps I should just leave it to the Holy Spirit.

Reminds me of Emo Phillips:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

feetle

Like the splinter freedom groups in Life of Brian.

When I lived in Mold, North Wales, I commented to a neighbour that the Welsh must be very religious because there were so many chapels. He laughed, and said 'No, we are just awkward sods - somebody is building a chapel and then he falls out with somebody else about the colour of the walls so he goes and starts another one somewhere else'.

I am glad atheism is so simple - we all agree there are no gods (well, some might still want to say 'probably', but not me).

greatnan

Funny, but I was just wondering earlier today whether there are splinter atheist groups. What would the splinters be splintering off about?

About the nature of the non-god? I know there are different scientific views about the origins of life but they rarely give rise to murders, bombings, etc. We leave that to believers.

I agree MiceElf that Ship of Fools is amusing, intelligent, in fact a good read. I particularly like the secret worshipper thing where someone goes off undercover to a particular church and then rates the quality of the sermon etc.

I used to log on to S of F some years ago and then lapsed but now I've started again.

Why does it matter whether there is a God or not?

What difference does it make?

That's a serious question.

Presumably there could potentially be as many atheist splinter groups as there are atheists - since there is no body of doctrine. But being human, most of us like to assure ourselves that we are right by finding other people with the same or similar views. Might explain the Dawky following.

Petallus - I suppose it makes a difference if you believe it and think there are rules you have to follow. Doesn't make any difference to me.

Lilygran - it wouldn't make any difference to my lack of belief if nobody agreed with me. You either believe or you don't - you can't make yourself believe something just because others believe it.

petallus It matters if those who believe there is a god – any god – think this puts them in a position where their belief entitles them to dictate to others who don't believe in the same god or any god how they should behave, live, treat other people and so on. It matters in Eire where the church prevents women from aborting a foetus that for some reason or another – physical deformity or fathered by a rapist (it didn't matter) – meant that they felt unable to bear the child. It matters when a Downs syndrome child has been accused of blasphemy in order to clear a city suburb of Christian inhabitants. It matters if people of faith are allowed a privileged position – bishops automatically given seats in the House of Lords. It matters if it is regarded legally as correct that men have control over women. It matters in many ways these days; it also mattered a lot in the past – think Inquisition and Salem. Is it really any different now – just not always so obviously bloodthirsty.

Hmm, I don't think there's anything to splinter about in atheism though. Anyone who calls themself (herself/himself?) an atheist has already agreed with all the others who do too about everything that separates them from theists, namely that they don't believe in any gods (so far).

Mind you, Old Sachsie was trying to tell Dawky he's a this kind of atheist rather than a that kind. Silly man. Dawky's far too clever to fall for the divide and rule tactic.

Well said, absent.

I think people are equally good/bad whether or not they believe in a God.

If God exists he doesn't seem to be doing much to help with the suffering in this world.

If he doesn't, well that explains it!

I suppose if you hanker after an afterlife it would be good for there to be a God.

Bags I'm certainly 'splintered' from Dawky (as you call him) in my atheism.

Gosh, that's interesting petallus. Please tell us more.

that's interesting, petallus. Would you like to tell us how?

PS 'Dawky' was lily's soubriquet for Dawkins (I think)

Seemed quite affectionate of her really

Bit like Ducky

Ducky Dawky - like that.

Damning with faint ridicule? Dorky is the last thing he is.

The quick answer to why am I splintered from Dawky is that I don't like fundamentalists of any persuasion.

I spent years thinking about the unknown spiritual side of life, studying psychology, Buddhist and Christian philosophy.

There are a lot of intelligent free thinking Christians out there. I particularly like Christian Mysticism (Meister Ekhart) and I've visited places like Turvey Abbey where they run courses in interfaith dialogue and where we are told if we don't believe in a God to 'interpret' that word into something that means something to us as non-believers.

So, against this background I find Dawkins simplistic, aggressive and a smart arse.

He sets up an image of the worst side of Christianity and then proceeds, Aunt Sally like, to knock it down.

And I don't even care if he is friends with a Bishop or two.