And while we're on the subject

I do like it when the debate stays polite and does not descend to abuse.

Excellent bags and vamp! The thing that gets wearing is the agitating and hostility, not the cut and thrust of a good debate which brings in totally opposite opinions and beliefs. If it starts getting nasty, someone always gets hurt, invariably the one who makes accusations that someone is having a go at someone else. Constant complaining seems to be motivated by a desire to spoil the debate. Leave it be, please.

Just staying afloat, Elegran.

Thanks, vamp, Bang on! Some of us enjoy a good debate, and the more difference there is between people's views, the better for discussion. So long as we discuss the subject in hand and don't get personal, debating 'snipes' are just good fun and good brain exercise. Now please, those of you who don't like such things, can those of us who do be allowed to get on with it instead of always being asked to stop just when it's getting interesting? No offence to anyone is intended. There's nothing wrong with controversy.

I am just enjoying the intellectual exercise! What else would any of us be doing? We all know we are not going to alter anybody's beliefs, nor would we want to.

Sometimes the exchanges do sound to non-combatants like those between the big-endians and the little-endians.

We are all here together, adrift in the same leaky boat, and our energies should be focussed more on keeping it afloat and out of the whirlpools than on arguing whether a supernatural hand is on the tiller or whether we need to chart our route for ourselves.

But if you are just enjoying the intellectual exercise, then do continue. Just keep rowing and baling.

VQ - I think we all agree that being nice to people is a good idea!

Vampire a very refreshing post, thank you

I consider myself to be a Christian. I think the message of being nice to one another is a pretty good way to try to live your life. However it doesn't stop me from seeing the faults in the Christian churches or the problem with unconditional or unthoughtout faith. If you mention your faith don't be surprised if someone asks you to explain the reasons you believe. It's just the same for the atheists. I would ask them why don't you believe and expect them to be able to give me a reasoned answer. It's not necessarily a sign that the questioner is being anti anything. It could just be a genuine interest in other people's beliefs.

Oh, for pity's sake! If people want to snipe, let them! The constant complaints about it are far more tiresome! Nobody has to read any particular thread. It's clear that some people don't like discussions about religion. Fine. Don't go near them then, and leave those who do the freedom to carry on without being constantly "told off" as if they were doing something wrong!

Alison has been a prolific poster on religious threads and some people supported her. Perhaps they are all on holiday.
I was merely saying what 'left wing' means to me - there was no implication of what 'right wing' might mean. Some of us have been called 'loonie lefties' which is offensive, particularly as the people using that term did not say what their definition was so I thought I would give my own.
Jane, if you are not interested in people's religious or political views, may I ask exactly what opinions do interest you?

When I was a student I regarded myself as a Christian Socialist after the model of the Iona Community. Later I became a humanist and a Social Democrat (never a Liberal, though nominally a Lib Dem) so I refuse to pigeon-hole myself in any category, though I happen to think that the ideals of the Left (or left of centre) fit very well with the basic tenets of Christianity.

jane

What is all this about? You believe in a god. You don't believe in a god. So? This feels like a post that is absolutely asking for dissent. And I cannot be bothered any more; it will end, as ever, in tears.

I have not seen any evangelicizing here, and I'm happy because that annoys me, whoever is doing it.

It's not a question of me being scared to join in or whatever, it's more to do with weariness at this constant sniping. Neither camp is going to give in, but me, I'm going over to the quiet corner with when! And I'm taking my with me.

Greatnan 2 for you:

1 Who is Alison and what is that all about?
2 I took it that if 'left' meant all those things the opposite was 'right'. Clearly a mistake but one that I think many would make.

Just for the record, I am reasonably well educated (though coming on here has been a humbling experience), agnostic, and slightly to the right of Ghengis Khan[joke].
I am very interested in others' opinions, but not their political allegiances nor their religious affiliations.
I'm going to my DD's for tea now and I hope when I get back you'll all have stopped pointlessly arguing with each other

lily

I didn't mention right wing.

Like your emoticons, Bags!

Mice can I take that as a compliment about my education? Or maybe I don't post often enough to qualify? What level of education do I need? Please tell me so I know whether I should leave GN because I am a fraud? I do sometimes post badly because I am doing so in between something important but I am far from alone in that. I have seen some bad spelling (as against bad typing) so does that mean those people don't qualify? Should I have passed an entry test? [woried and confused emoticon]

Typed in between ironing and cleaning a bathroom - important things!

I was just trying to understand what you meant by right wing. It did sound as if you were attributing all those things to them but I would have gone further that RW, perhaps fascist?

No, you can't infer that. However, I do think the present Government's moves to cut benefits , reduce taxes for the richest, and curtail workers' hard-won rights does not bode well for the people at the bottom of the pile.
What do you mean by right wing?

See you there, when. I'll bring my appetite!

.....and all those of us who are cheesed off with the same old script, see you in the quiet corner when I have taken my pineapple upside down cake out if the oven

Should have cooled own by 7pm. I'll bring ice cream, too!

unless someone can come up with something original?

Greatnan should we infer from "left -wing, if that means concerned for fairness and justice, and anti any kind of prejudice such as racism, sexism, homophobia......." that you think right wingers are not "concerned for fairness and justice" and are for "any kind of prejudice such as racism, sexism, homophobia......."? This definition is new to me.

Bags - we wish!