Christian Grans

I refuse to nail my colours to any mast but just want to say same old, same old - don't you get fed up with repeating it all the time?

Grannylin - there is strength in numbers!

Sorry, repetitive, but I think we all spluttered at once!

But we don't practise exclusivity on Gransnet.Where would it end? a thread for Muslims, Scientologists, Buddhists, Lesbians, Anti- abortionists, ....no

Elsiejoy - if we had a thread dedicated to Christians, we would need one dedicated to all the other faiths, in the interest of fairness!
Just google 'Christian forums' and you will find plenty - Gransnet is not one of them, as it caters for all grandparents irrespective of their religious affiliation. Why would you expect special treatment?
Your post didn't 'get to us' - we are mostly quite used to debate about subjects that interest us, and as organised religion has such a large effect on public life we are naturally interested in it.

There is no way that people who believe in a god and people who don't can be expected to agree, but that does not mean that we do not accept the other side's right to hold any views they choose, no matter how much we disagree with them.

I feel you may have misinterpreted some of the posts - nobody has been personally critical of you.

What did we suggest ElsieJoy? I am not at all sure that you have decribed your beliefs and I disagree in principle with the idea that any thread, whether religious, political or anything else, should be for the exclusive use of particular members of Gransnet.

Well...a simple question about other christian grans certainly got to you didn't it?

No...I am not pushing my faith to others, it was you non believers who suggested that.

We are all free to express our opinions have no problem with your opinions/views/beliefs but you all seem to have a problem with mine..interesting.

What happened to 'freedom of speech'. 'tolerance of others'...what good examples we are setting our grandchildren if we as adults cannot 'agree to disagree' with our peers...shame on you all

As there is no dedicated Christian forum and you are all convinced that i am wrong not much point in me posting again is there?

As an atheist I can only agree with that greatnan

Funny how delighted I am that my thread about not having or wanting a bible in the house has got me talking about, erm, bible stories.

Ana Was the thread on That Man Dawkins basically about atheism and didn't it attract many comments from Christians?

Golf, dieting and weight loss are not topics that permeate every level of secular society in the way that religion in general and Christianity in particular do in the UK. This is the famous comparing apples with oranges thing.

What happened is what happens on most threads - people posted what they wanted to post. Have you seen what happened to my innocent thread about a depressing friend?
I am not complaining - it is the nature of forums. I think you will find that the atheists amongst us do not usually complain - we are able to accept the cut and thrust of debate without descending to personal insults.

Bags I'm just doing what we are supposed to be able to do, speaking my mind without bothering to be tactful. Any feeling of being insulted is just an unfortunate side effect of that.

When I read the original post I took secular to mean not Christian. Now I know better but since I'm not a pedant I'm not too bothered.

Like you I picked up on lilygran's remark about nuances of the Isaac story and decided to ask her to go into it further.

Greatnan I am guessing that this was supposed to be a thread where Christians could talk together about their faith. And look what happened!

I would add that I'm trying to have a discussion with someone about nuances in a bible story on another thread but it hasn't taken off yet.

What is closed about trying to define secularism, petallus? I really don't know what know what you have a problem with on this thread! It seems to me, you just want to be insulting. Why?

So far there hasn't been any discussion about christianity on this thread by the people who are supposed to want it.

Closed minds are depressing be they Christian ones or Atheist ones.

True debate isn't really possible unless there is some degree of openness to new ideas.

ceesnan, I don't post stuff on gransnet that I don't feel I can talk about, whether people will agree with me or not. That is my approach to gransnet and I think it's a healthy one.

If it's OK, which it is, for one person to "react" to what they see as negative comments/remarks/statements about something they feel strongly about, then it's also OK for someone else to "react" to something they see as negative or, perhaps, just plain wrong, about something they feel strongly about.

That is what I did at the start of this thread. I reacted to a comment about secularism which I felt was caused by a mistaken understanding of that subject. Why does anyone have a problem with that? Isn't it rather important to understand what meaning we are attaching to a word if we are to have an adult discussion about something?

A couple of people have reminded me of a special meaning of the word secular (thank you for that) but my argument is that the meaning the OP intended would actually have been better served by other words, such as atheistic and agnostic. I said that because I think that's what she was referring to, and not to secularism. As I pointed out to ElsieJoy, she can be a christian and a secularist at the same time. She cannot be a christian and an atheist at the same time. I think it's debatable whether anyone can be a christian and an agnostic at the same time. The difference in meaning between the words secular on the one hand and atheist/agnostic on the other, is LARGE. It is not helpful to anyone for them to be confused.

I have not, yet, commented on the faith part of the ElsieJoy's opening remark, so no-one can 'accuse' me of 'attacking' her beliefs. To be honest, I'm not terribly interested in that part, only in the proper use of the the word secular.

Why not start the thread and see how it goes - but I don't think you can expect to dictate what other people post. I don't expect to be able to start a thread about my strongly-held beliefs about religion without believers putting their own, different, views on it.
There are plenty of forums for religious believers to hold discussions - try Ship of Fools. Gransnet is an open forum for all members, whatever their religious affiliation, or none.

But what is so wrong with asking for a thread where people who wish to do so can discuss their views on religion? As has already been stated, if you don't want to take part, then don't, but surely there is no harm in letting them discuss in peace without the same old hi-jacking by the atheists/agostics who feel they have to proclaim their non religious status. Is leaving one thread for a dedicated discussion too much to ask?

Quite, Ceesnan, but if we post what we believe and others do not agree we must expect them to say so.

Bags 'suggested' that one way lilygran could stop her faith being got at was not to talk about it on a public forum. Why shouldn't she? No one has the right to suggest or otherwise what a person can or cannot post.

Not allowed to express your views? How do you make that out? You can post anything you like, just as non-believers can. Religious people have been able to stifle debate for thousands of years, and obviously the churches don't like losing their monopoly of debate (or their places in the House of Lords, or their charitable status for tax). As for being 'washed in the blood of the lamb' - I would not want to belong to any organisation that was founded on a blood sacrifice.
And there were plenty of atheist conscientious objectors - it had nothing to do with religion in many cases.
Why should you be bothered by people without views - they are hardly likely to do you any harm.
I cannot decide, from your two posts, whether you want to enter into debate or just want to tell us about your own faith. If it is the latter, good for you, you are entitled to do that, just as the rest of us are entitled to carry on trying to explain our own views and understand what others believe.

I posted on this Forum thread because when I looked for a 'Christian' thread, there wasn't one. 'Religion and Spirituality' is a mindless generic term and the majority of voices are bound to be non-christian. Fair enough, but it does mean that the minority christian voice will be shouted at or ignored, we are used to that. (By the way why are you so afraid that I'm going to try and convert you )

Would be nice if we could have a dedicated Christian' forum thread, because despite what you might think there still is a lot to talk about and share even after 2000 years...

PS...what does OP mean please? I'm new here and have no idea

Just for the record...I have a faith...a personal relationship with God I do NOT have a religion...there is a great difference, one which sadly gets ignored by the many who refuse to listen to christians.

I am not trying to convert any of you, the same way as I wouldn't try and convert you all to vegetarianism..which I also strongly believe in....I'm also a Conscientious Objector....I am quite happy with other peoples views, we should all have them and all views should be listened to and respected.It is people without views that worry me.....but why is it that when christianity gets mentioned we are not allowed to express our views? Isn't my faith just as valid as yours?

If you have no interest in golf then no one will make you play it. However if you have no interest in any Religion you will be pressured to participate in acts of worship in Council Chambers, Schools and at public events. I campaign for a secular society. Why? At the moment my priority is to ensure that my Grandson, and all the other 5 year olds will cease to be presented, in Primary 1 of a state school, with the story of Noah and the Ark as the theme for all their work until half term. When my DD questioned his class teacher she was assured that this was not a Religious Theme - more Historical !?!?!? and that they would be choosing different themes each term from a range of sources. Teacher had the grace to blush when she was forced to admit that after half term the theme will be 'the Good Samaritain' until the run up to Christmas ...........

This is the same deep thinking DGS who was so upset at Easter when the School Chaplain told him that the 'only son' had to die a horrible death to save us from our sins. DGS - an only - son was sobbing that he did not want to die. Now he is asking Mummy why God sent a flood to kill everyone except Noah and if he is liable to do it again if provoked.

Why can't they stick to NICE stories such as 'The Great Big Enormous Turnip' (which teaches co-operation, and incorporates counting) instead of presenting horror stories from the so called 'Good Book'. If they must use bible stories then they should be stressing that they are indeed, only STORIES.

Not mischief-making sbagran. For me, it feels alien to have to continually refute assumptions made that Christianity is the default position. As an atheist (brought up C of E), I have had a lifetime of having to explain and insist that I should not be categorised as a Christian, simply because I am English. It is so ingrained into documentation and processes, that atheists are pushed into having to do this. I know some progress has been made and many organisations no longer insult Muslims, Jews and atheists by asking for their Christian names, but so many Christians still do think atheists should not have the right or the choice to define themselves as non-believers. Volunteer receptionists in hospital clinics, chaplain in the hospice, meals on wheels organiser being recent examples I have witnessed doing this. It's not difficult to be anti-religion when it gets imposed on you in so many ways, outside the church setting.