Four out of five British adults believe in the power of prayer.

I don't believe in the efficacy of prayer so I don't pray. I also don't believe in any gods so I wouldn't have anything to pray to. This would seem to be self-limiting, as you suggest, gorki.

But if praying is psychologically beneficial to those who do it and who believe in its efficacy, why would a 'selfish' motive matter? I use 'selfish' to mean self-interested as in trying to improve one's psychological health. Surely it's not wrong to do that, or to seek to do that, for any reason that is not harmful to oneself or others?

I do believe in the efficacy of thought, preferably calm and rational thought, but angry thought can be useful too. But that's only talking to myself.

I just meant that if you enter a relationship you don't do it purely for what you can get out of it.That would be wrong in a marriage and so it is with prayer.To be a whole person you need to be able to give(in whatever way you can) as well as to receive.I am not disagreeing with you Bags but just looking from a different perspective.I see thought as a type of prayer though I can see that you wouldn't.

I see what you're getting at, gorki, and I agree if one is praying to a god. I suppose what one is giving is worship, or something of that nature? I'm happy for you to think of thought as prayer, but I never feel as if I'm praying – not sure I'd know if I did! And it isn't a relationship with anyone else, only with myself (or my conscience), so I guess that discounts it.

Are we splitting hairs?

How do people who think their prayers have been answered know that it is not just coincidence?
When my daughter was close to death I didn't think of praying - I was far more concerned in getting the panicking junior doctors and the nurses to get a surgeon for her.
If anybody wants to pray for me, good luck to them, but it would be meaningless to me.
When I asked a nun at my convent school why prayers often went unanswered she replied 'No is an answer' which just made me think there was no point in bothering then.

I think all the Christians on here (if there are more than two ) should have one big pray-in for Greatnan.

What could it be for? Something along the lines of St Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus? #thatwouldsurpriseher

Thank you, jingle, but I am extremely happy with my atheism and I wouldn't like people to waste their time...still, if it makes anyone feel good about themselves....

I often pray for people who don't believe in God. My brother is a non-believer but I am praying for him as he has recently undergone tests for prostate cancer. Do my prayers help him? I can't tell but they certainly don't do any harm. When my DH died many people prayed for him and me and I felt comforted knowing that

It would have to be well organised. Purely as an experiment.

Prayer can certainly do no harm sunseeker. And can probably do a lot of good.

I notice that the discussion on this thread seems to take the view that prayer is simply asking for something - petionary prayer - but this is only a very small part of what prayer is. Prayer can be defined as the desiring of a relationship with God. A maturing and loving awareness of the divine presence.

If a person does not believe in God, then clearly, prayer has to be an incomprehensible waste of time. But for a person who does believe in God, then it will be important to build a relationship with him / her through contemplation and communion with others.

God is not the great magician in the sky who can be bargained with or cajoled. God works through women and men who in turn need to work with each other to bring about the Kingdom of God.

I know this language and small attempt at some clarification will not resonate with those who have no religious belief, but for those who do, however faint, I'm simply attempting to widen the definition of the popular image of prayer.

I understand what you've said, mice, so you could say it 'resonates' with me, but the resonance doesn't seem relevant to my life or how I live it. Neither do I feel I'm missing out on anything valuable.

Greatnan, if I pray for you - and I do remember many in my prayers, especially someone like you with lively and trenchent opinions, it would only be for you to be true to yourself. And I would make the same prayer for MiceElf.

#spoilsport

#hashtagger

#sowhat

#grinteaser

#eh?

Off at a tangent [so what's new]...a pleasant, young police officer came to the door a few minutes ago, to ask are we warm and have we enough supplies. Wasn't that a kind gesture? Also to say...any time soon the power will be lost for about an hour, as the engineers will be restoring power to the village.

So...it's goodbye from him...and it's goodbye from me...

Prayer is mainly about listening and being challenged and directed.That is how I see the similarity with thought and meditation.

I agree with Gorki and MiceElf but I think many people think of prayer as where you go to when things are desperate or at least, pressing. That's the tone of the Telegraph article, anyway. And I think it is very interesting that people pray for help even though they might say they don't really believe.

I have always thought of prayer as much more than just asking god for favours - several phrases from the bible have meaning for me, but that does not mean I believe in any god. I often say to myself, when I am contemplating some of my marvellous mountain scenery 'Be still, and know that I am god'. The 'being still' part makes sense to me, whoever said it. I think many people are too busy rushing around, trying to fit too many things into their lives, so they have no time for quiet contemplation.
I accept that praying might be one way to give people the chance to slow down and just be.
Of course, there is also the placebo effect, but I remember a surprising piece of research (sorry, I can't remember the provenance) which found that people who knew they were being prayed for actually felt stressed because they felt they 'owed' it to the people praying to get better.
All in all, I think praying, for whatever reason, might be helpful to believers and can do no harm. However, I am thinking of private meditation, rather than the somewhat boring repetition of standard prayers.

Well now Greatnan, I'm with you about 90% of the way. The only observation I might add is about the boring repetition of standard prayers. I think that for many that repetition is a way of doing two things.

Firstly, as a sort of mantra to kerp the mind on prayer without getting distracted by other matters. The rosary for example (although I have to say it doesn't do anything for me).

And secondly, to remind those who use those prayers, of the beliefs and foci of the community to which they belong.

Might it have been this report, Greatnan?

True story: I'll keep it short(ish).
Some years ago, one December, I was a single parent, broke, and at the end of my tether when my washing machine finally died on me. My youngest was still in terry nappies so it was a big deal and finding the money for a new machine was an impossibility. That weekend I went to a prayer meeting at my nearby church and we sat in a group to pray, one by one, out loud! I was the last one to pray and the whole time the others were praying I just kept thinking of all the stuff I needed, but couldn't afford. However by the time it came around to my turn I simply prayed that I would have the faith to believe in God's provision for me. I didn't mention any of the things I was in need of.
A short time after arriving home a Curry's van turned up to deliver a state of the art, very expensive, washing machine. I explained that it was a mistake, but the paperwork was complete with my name on it and the machine had been paid for in cash. To this day I don't know who bought it. During the following week my children were all bought new winter coats and shoes by a good friend of mine, cash arrived anonymously in plain brown envelopes; the people of the church gave me a food hamper with an envelope of money at the bottom - and all my needs at that time were met. I believed then and I believe now that God answered my prayer.