Are religions unfair to women?

HQ - just delete it quietly. Don't bother to email me.

I am not trying to be patronising, or to preach. I just hope I'm putting in a word for those who are unable to.

That is all. I don't often get this cross.

Lilygran pointed out, re my earlier post about howls of protest against women bishops:

Howls of protest? Quite a few versions of 'modern Protestant Christianity' don't have bishops at all, male or female. Of those that do, most already have women bishops. The CoE General Synod has agreed to appoint women as bishops but is trying to arrive at a process which will reconcile the minority still not happy about it.

Yes, you're right, the howls have long since died down replaced by attempted appeasement on one side, and resentment and sulks on the other. The appeasers want to accommodate those who cannot abide such abominations as their priest having a woman boss, and the sulks come from those misogynists who insist the bible supports them. I wish they would just go with the majority vote, and leave the neanderthals to grow up.

j08's terminology didn't offend me. It didn't make light of the practice, which is cultural, not religious. We all know what is involved and the potential repercussions. To scramble for the sanctimonious high ground over the use of phraseology seems bizarre. If you're that upset then campaign against the practice not against words.

What a sensible post, Sel.

Just because it didn't offend you, Sel doesn't make it OK - it did make other people angry.

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JO8 said 'I simply posted a reply to another poster's assertion that this practice took place in England 300 years ago'.

I think if you read my post you will see that I did NOT assert any such thing. I stated that FGM was taking place in this country NOW - which is surely more concerning than whatever happened 300 years ago. Are you suggesting that we have no responsibility for practices and customs which have been imported into the UK during the last 300 years?

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Granny23- yes, the real point as you say is that it is still happening today in this country and not enough is being done to protect young girls in danger. It doesn't actually matter about whether it's cultural or religious or a confused mixture of the two. It's certainly about male domination, their wish to control women and to blame them for all the evils in the world which would come about from allowing women to experience sexual pleasure. Some of us have campaigned for a long time about this practice, have met women whose lives have been ruined by it so forgive me Sel, Ana and J08 if I and others get absolutely BLOODY FURIOUS at your assertions that the words used don't matter.

Calm Down , Bluebell , think of your B .P .

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OMG ..crossed posts! But great minds?????

I imagine all the posters on this thread abhor FGM and I repeat my view that any condemnation of the practice should be focused on the practice and not confused by prejudiced or misinformed attitudes to religion. www.forwarduk.org.uk/get-involved/act

Thank you for that Lilygran. I have avoided posting on here as I find some of the language used and the sneers and personal attacks so rebarbative that debate becomes impossible.

Forward is an organisation I haven't come across before Lilygran. Thanks for the link. The FGM info is under the Campaigns menu, for anyone who clicks on the link and just gets a page with a form on it.

I support AVAAZ amongst other organisations who campaign against FGM, but was dismayed to read that they took some convincing a few years back, before they would start their campaign. A victim of FGM, a Christian girl who grew up in a Masai tribe, was forced to have her genitals mutilated at the age of nine, despite asserting over and over that she did not want it done. She got involved with the movement to try and banish FGM, and AVAAZ are said to have told her no-one would be interested. Fortunately, they capitulated a year or so later.

It seems that the politics of campaigning will always influence which people continue to suffer, as well as religious clout.

I am sorry, Gransnetters, that I appeared to hi jack the thread, and probably overdid my response.

Will keep calm and carry on.

Well I'm not sorry you did or me either - the real issue was the flippancy ... But well, enough, I know who is in the right and I'm off to work anyway now...enough of brick walls and head banging

bluebell thank you. Will avoid brick walls in future!

Blimey a post that could have resulted in a meaningful discussion has become really nasty and spiteful. I honestly don't think [*JO8] meant to be flippant with her 'snipping clits' remark - it might be just her way of addressing an upsetting procedure. So instead of people concentrating on the matter in hand they have used it as a bashing up [*JO8] - not everyone is as erudite as some .

dorset This isn't about "bashing up" j08 or being "nasty and spiteful". It's about pointing out that the way we use language is important.

I was discussing this matter with my husband and asking him if he thought it was an over reaction for some gransnetters to dislike the term "clit snipping". He didn't think it was an over reaction, and asked whether gransnetters would think it appropriate for a man, in a public forum (in a newspaper, on TV, etc.), to describe FGM in this way.

I also wondered, if such a disgusting procedure had been carried out on one of our own grandchildren whether we would describe it in such a way.

It's not about being erudite - why not just refer to it, as others had, as FGM?

Because I've never effing heard it called FGM. I've heard about it and I know it's barbaric but, no, apart from listening to items on Woman's Hour and the like, it has not been uppermost in my mind. Slap my sodding wrist for that.

The Christian religion (C of E and 'low churches' arms) is not unfair to women. I can't see how it is anyway.

Ok! I should have said "cutting clitorises". Wow! Doesn't that make a hell of a lot of difference!

Who the fuck knew this subject was going to appear out of the blue on a discussion about religion?! #onlyongransnet

The important thing is to campaign strongly to stop the brutality towards women: FGM/Domestic violence/forced marriage/rape etc. These are serious issues that do not lend themselves well to light-heartedness or apparent flippancy.

In that context the feelings and 'playground' alliances of posters on a forum are insignificant.