Are religions unfair to women?

'Clits' aren't just 'snipped' Jingle. The objection to your description is about the dismissive way it was described. Radical excision of deep tissue, requiring extensive stitching and causing horrendous pain bears no relation to a 'snip.'

Oh Ana and J08 what's it like to be always in the right and for everyone else to be making such a fuss? Are you congenitally incapable of ever admitting you've ever posted anything that perhaps on reflection wasn't quite appropriate? Well I'n proud of being a nit picker looking for trouble. Apart from abbreviating clitoris, the word snipping does not describe what is done to many of these abused girls. The excising and sewing up afterwards leads to pain on urinating, whilst mensurating, having sex, giving birth, infection and sometimes death. But hey , just nit picking#grovellingapology for thinkingmutilatedwomendeserverespectandsympathy

Thank you When - you beat me to it!

I suspect some of the anti-female bias in the Old Testament was an over-reaction by men to the even older tradition of female knowledge and skill. Women were in charge of life-giving and life-preserving things like conception, pregnancy and birth, and illness. They met by night to worship the moon goddess, who ruled the monthly cycles of tides and menstruation,

They dealt with medicine - herbs gathered at the right time, brewed up according to a secret recipe and administered with incantations. They knew which substances were aphrodisiac and which were abortifacients.

Men who found a particular woman obsessively attractive worried that she had cast a spell on them. If a man crossed them, they could make him fall sick and die - perhaps by more incantations, perhaps by which herbs they put into the broth-pot.

That made them feared as possessing extra-human powers. The bible is full of references to witches, no wonder future readers did not want to give women more power by admitting them to the male preserve tehy had made for themselves.

Crikey Elegran I am feeling strangely empowered. Off to my herb garden immediately. I love the term broth-pot. OH had better watch out tonight

That'll keep him in order!

I've only got parsley, chives and oregano to choose from - I'll just chuck the lot in and stand back

Don"t think any of them will do a lot for him !

Still it"s the thought that counts IMO .

I've not much experience in brewing up magic potions, but I did a spot of googling on this.

For aphrodisiacs - try these

For anti-aphrodisiacs - [[http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2007/09/10/seeking-ways-to/ these] and valerian. Plus anti-depressants and sedatives

For poisoning the bugger and killing him off (not recommended) - [[ http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/earthkind/landscape/poisonous-plants-resources/common-poisonous-plants-and-plant-parts/ here]]

Hope he enjoys his soup tonight.

Repeat with links blued - I've not much experience in brewing up magic potions, but I did a spot of googling on this.

For aphrodisiacs - try these

For anti-aphrodisiacs - these and valerian. Plus anti-depressants and sedatives

For poisoning the bugger and killing him off (not recommended) - here

Hope he enjoys his soup tonight.

For poisoning the bugger....

#donttrythisathome

Hemlock and belladonna have been found effective as have several members of the toadstool family.

That had me spluttering into my coffee Elegran Thank you

I may have to make another visit and expand my herb collection, quietly.

Mental note: copy, paste and remember where instructions are.

I missed out: to the garden centre in my post above. I was over excited.

In response to the original post - of course they are! Modern protestant Christianity is probably the least harmful to women, but think of even their howls of protest about women bishops.

I think Islam in all its forms is pretty nasty for women, but many Muslim women think it is all OK, as they cover their hair, or their whole bodies when they go out. Sometimes I seethe in fury when I see a young veiled woman carrying all the shopping as she trails behind a hairy bearded older husband: I cling desperately to my anti-racist, non-judgmental views, grit my teeth and ignore them. It is very hard. I want to tell her to run away, and to tell him his balls won't drop off if he helps her a little - but I turn and walk away.

The whole illogicality of religions really bothers me. I tried to be a believer for quite a long time, but you can only suppress disbelief for so long. Now I wonder why I ever bothered to try.

Howls of protest? Quite a few versions of 'modern Protestant Christianity' don't have bishops at all, male or female. Of those that do, most already have women bishops. The CoE General Synod has agreed to appoint women as bishops but is trying to arrive at a process which will reconcile the minority still not happy about it. It has been suggested above, a view with which I agree, that much of the unequal treatment of women referred to in various posts is cultural rather than religious. I'm not a Muslim but I do know that what the Quran requires is modest dress for both men and women. You can see on the TV news everyday Muslim women dressed in every variety of costumes, usually that of their district or ethnic group or some version of "Western".

jingl I don't go round looking for trouble - I found it offensive and said so. End of.

"Female genital mutilation is classified into four major types.

Clitoridectomy: partial or total removal of the clitoris (a small, sensitive and erectile part of the female genitals) and, in very rare cases, only the prepuce (the fold of skin surrounding the clitoris).
Excision: partial or total removal of the clitoris and the labia minora, with or without excision of the labia majora (the labia are "the lips" that surround the vagina).
Infibulation: narrowing of the vaginal opening through the creation of a covering seal. The seal is formed by cutting and repositioning the inner, or outer, labia, with or without removal of the clitoris.
Other: all other harmful procedures to the female genitalia for non-medical purposes, e.g. pricking, piercing, incising, scraping and cauterizing the genital area.
No health benefits, only harm
FGM has no health benefits, and it harms girls and women in many ways. It involves removing and damaging healthy and normal female genital tissue, and interferes with the natural functions of girls' and women's bodies.

Immediate complications can include severe pain, shock, haemorrhage (bleeding), tetanus or sepsis (bacterial infection), urine retention, open sores in the genital region and injury to nearby genital tissue.

Long-term consequences can include:

recurrent bladder and urinary tract infections;
cysts;
infertility;
an increased risk of childbirth complications and newborn deaths;
the need for later surgeries. For example, the FGM procedure that seals or narrows a vaginal opening (type 3 above) needs to be cut open later to allow for sexual intercourse and childbirth. Sometimes it is stitched again several times, including after childbirth, hence the woman goes through repeated opening and closing procedures, further increasing and repeated both immediate and long-term risks.
Who is at risk?
Procedures are mostly carried out on young girls sometime between infancy and age 15, and occasionally on adult women."

I think you have hit it on the head mishap - religion has been misused to oppress women - but it is not religion itself, it is the cultures that mis use and re interpret it.

FFS Ariadne*! Do you really think I don't know all that!

I am finding your patronising preaching downright insulting now.

I simply posted a reply to another poster's assertion that this practice took place in England 300 years ago. #thatisall

Actually J08 IF you did know all that, it makes your use of the phrase 'snip clits' and your comments about nit picking and looking for trouble all the more reprehensible - not to mention downright insulting.

I give up. #smallmindedwomen

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At least we knew exactly what J0 meant. Reducing it down to FGM or whatever makes it sort of anonymous - can't find the right word.