Are religions unfair to women?

I don't think you can expect to reform other world religions completely. So long as they stay within our laws when practised in this country. That is what must be imposed.

The sharia 'courts' in this country can only act in domestic matters. They can't impose the kind of punishments that are used in Muslim countries. A woman who is married by civil law in this country can obtain a civil divorce. She doesn't have to go to the sharia court. Unfortunately, people who live in minority communities tend to come under a lot of community pressure about their private lives. Years ago, I worked in an educational outreach project with women from various minority backgrounds. It's a bit like living in a small village in the 1950s. One young recently-arrived bride turned up one day in jeans, bought for her by her husband, born and brought up here. She was perfectly modestly covered with jeans, a tunic and scarf. There was quite a lot of chat about this in both English and Urdu from the other women. Next time she came, she was wearing traditional clothes. Minor matter but it happens over more important things too. It's a class/culture thing. As MiceElf suggests.

jo8 If it was my post that you did not understand, I meant that if a woman has no freedom (I don't mean she was locked up with a key, but that the whole family attitude to her is that she should be obedient - like the jeans thing above) then sharia law/culture is oppressing her, and if she is prevented by that atmosphere from seeking redress outside the family, the she cannot be free in the outside, non-sharia law/culture either.

We have domestic courts here. Don't need more imported. And yes, I agree, cultural pressure to conform to what most people regard as out-dated 'norms' is what it's about. Another reason we ought to outlaw Sharia courts, or anything similar. That something is traditional is not necessarily a good reason for doing it. Lots of "traditions" are appalling.

All of the above applies equally well to useless out-dated or traditional British 'norms' as well. The difference is that we don't have courts that force people to behave differently from what they would choose, unless they are actully harming others.

Laws should be to protect people, not to suppress them. Sharia Law suppresses women.

Sharia law is certainly the worst in this country by far, but there are others, religiously based, which can also oppress such as Romany with underage marriage and removal from school.

I think that in Britain we are so keen to give everyone their 'rights' that our law enforcement is becoming diluted.

And I do not agree with relious independent schools. The only religion which should be taught in school is comparative religion to further understanding.

It is now fashionable to teach comparative religion in schools but I question how effective this is. Students may learn about how many arms a god or goddess has and the important possessions a Sikh should own but it is difficult to get across the real spirituality and understanding of a religion . If Christianity is explored in depth in an open and questioning way then this opens up the way for an exploration of other faiths in the future. After all, Christianity is part of our culture just as English Literature is. We might say we ought to teach the great Russian and German authors as well as the Chinese and others but usually these are left to personal choice outside school. There is a danger of diluting everything and this leads to misunderstanding rather than greater understanding . I am talking about state schools but I think faith schools are perfectly OK for those who want to explore their own faiths . I don't see a problem with them.

I seem to have digressed from the OP. Apologies ! No apology smiley ?

I would ban faith schools.

Why Aka ?Apologies if you have already explained.

No need to apologise I didn't explain.
Firstly I think as a multicultural society we ought to integrate as much as possible and this includes schooling. In the school my grandson attends there are many children from different cultures and religions and they all mix, play tag in the playground, argue, make up, read together, and share their snacks, etc. So they see each other as just another child.
Secondly I went to a faith school. I was taught that my religion was the only way to heaven! that other religions were not the true path and we were superior. I never got to mix with children from other backgrounds and cultures until I was asked to leave (for questioning articles of faith). It was a culture shock living the the reel world and meeting other children and finding they were not heathens but ordinary, nice people.
Imagine my version of reality if I hadn't come into contact with other children and lived in a community where I never met people from other cultures? What kind of insulated person would I have become?

'Faith' schools is a weasel term for 'Sectarian' schools. And many of them are paid for with public funds, which should surely be spent on schools available to all, not just members of the appropriate sect, be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or any other.

My experience of faith school mirrors yours Aka but I actually went on to send two of my children to one In this neck of the woods all the best rated school tend to be 'faith' schools, typically C of E or Catholic and parents like the moral advantage they perceive them to give.

I think they have changed though and the superiority has mostly gone. I can certainly identify with that 'being a part of this religion is the only route to Heaven' The rest had it wrong. Similarly, it was a bit of a shock to go to a Grammar school and find the heathens were actually pretty OK. Funny.

I agree Sel that some schools have changed but not all religions have managed that journey yet and that worries me about faith schools.

Well said, nfk and feetle.

Yup, I wouldn't disagree Aka I find it quite perplexing that I accepted faith schools of certain types but am less sure of others. Probably says more about me than the schools. On balance I'd come down on banning rather than encouraging and funding them in future.

If you banned faith schools you would have to ban faith. Ridiculous idea. Mind police.

Nonsense! People can believe what they like. And do.

And they can their children in whatever schools they like, so long as they teach the National Curriculum satisfactorily. And long may it continue.

Nonsense right back at you lady.

Oh if only! Remember John Lennon's 'Imagine'.

Oh yes. John Lennon.

Imagine!

Would there be any mileage in having schools which are 95% secular but have a slot ( a morning a week?) for each religion to hold classes for its own adherents? With each taking turns to tell those of other faiths what their variety is all about and why they follow it? Those with no religion could perhaps study a little basic moral philosophy and join the faith students in explaing that to others in their turn.

There would probably need to be some refereeing at times, but it would give everyone some practice in explaining themselves without denigrating everyone else.

I'm not sure how you would manage the transfer of converts from one group to another - interesting.

I don't know if it's so much about explanation Elegran as just meeting other cultures in a 'normal' way. Where I live it's very multi-religious; Muslim, various Christian sects, Sikh, Hindu, Judaism, etc. and multicultural; Asian, Eastern European, black, white, etc.
When I've had friends visit I've been shocked surprised that they notice the diversity as we are so used to it. It's also been an eye opener to thrm that the Musilm chappy who owns the off-incense, speaks perfect English with a local accent, has a great sense of humour and is just like us. This is what the children in non faith schools are learning on a daily basis.
And as far as practising their religion I don't know that going to a non-faith school has any effect either way. I'm sure the Sikh boy in my GS's class goes to the temple still for example.

jingsoldbean, there are churches to teach religious belief systems. We don't need it to be taught in schools as well. Religion as a social phenomenon is quite sufficient for state schools.

Surely most state schools teach the basics of all the major world religions as part of the national curriculum.