Is it hypocrisy for Jewish communities to erect an eruv?

It makes no difference to me if they want to get round their own rules in this way - I was just pondering on the thought processes behind it. Perhaps I am just too rational - either I believe in something or I don't.

Principle, not principal.

That is between them and the One who made the laws, Greatnan.

What others think won't make any difference to them, any more than what others think makes any difference to those who drive just over the speed limit on principal, or smoke in bus-shelters, or use mobile phones while driving.

Whether or not it is hypocritical I would not like to say, but it is the extent that religious beliefs can inhibit logical thinking that I worry about.

But they are not obeying them, if they just find a way to get round them!Surely, if they think the rules are too restrictive, or obsolete, it would be easier to just ignore them. It is the pretence of following the rules that puzzles me.

The point about religious restrictions is surely not that they make practical sense but that you obey them? It helps community cohesion and keeps those who accept them, mindful of who they are and who they believe in. It's no use looking for practical explanations, it's like explaining miracles. If you can explain it, it's not a miracle.

But MiceElf I don't think orthodox Jews would take a great deal of notice of the views of Jesus Christ.
It doesn't worry me too much and I don't think hypocrisy is a problem. I suggest its just another ritual to allow people to encourage the mind away from worldly matters for one day a week. It's still pretty restrictive.

I think hypocrisy is a rather emotive word and I would hesitate to apply it here. To me the eruv simply defies logic, period.
If one is not allowed to carry or push objects from home into the street on the Sabbath, why does the designation of an area, either by existing buildings or the placement of a wire, suddenly make it ok?

ogm the boundary to an eruv is already dictated by existing buildings and the rest is akin to putting up a few telephone wires, which won't affect anyone. Still, makes no sense to me on other levels.

Leviticus makes fascinating reading - if you can stomach it...

In my teens I used to go into next-door and turn the lights on on a Friday evening - the shabbos-goy, that was me... It seemed silly to me then, but they were nice people, so what the hell... It all seems just as silly now.

Did you read of the couple who 'couldn't' leave their flat on the Sabbath, because there was a motion detector that turned on the light in the hallway?

Meshugas...

This may be a simplistic comment, but if any other group ( I use the term loosely) sought to create such a boundary (again the term is used loosely) there would be an outcry.
I agree with previous comments, if people don't like the restrictions then the should not let them impede on their lives.

My DH employed an orthodox jewess who took advantage of the Friday thing (amongst other problems with her performance) . Her friend, also employed, was furious with her.
Yes "when" there are quite a few religious laws, in various religions, that are just kept up because they are traditions, whereas originally there was often some logic behind them, given understanding of hygiene and disease transmission that prevailed 3 or more thousand years ago. The book of Leviticus makes fascinating reading.

I think it's helpful to be curious about each other's traditions and rituals, in order to understand and tolerate one another. The eruv won't intrude on anyone's lives, but a fence would. Going home early on Friday but working to make it up on other days shouldn't be a problem for anyone, either. I had staff members who weren't Jewish, but wanted to go home early on Fridays occasionally - we accommodated it as long as it wasn't abused.

I just struggle to understand why religions create and peretuate these restrictive rules. Why not exercise ther brains by creating more rules that are caring of other humans, like tithe, feeding the poor, doing voluntary work? In a world where so many are in dire poverty and need, stringing up a few poles and wires so someone can carry a basket of washing across the road, or back the car into the driveway, makes no sense.

It's part of their law. Seems quite a sensible part.

I wonder how the young mothers will get the babies inside the eruv before they can start carrying or pushing them.

It sounds very strange. But it's fine by me.

Son's partner comes from an Orthodox family, and is restricted in what she does on the Sabbath. We don't schedule family get-togethers for a Saturday, but often see them on Sundays.

She encountered resentment from a new immediate boss in her previous job, for being allowed to leave work early on winter Fridays to be home before sunset (despite working longer hours on other days to more than compensate, and being conscientious and a hard worker at all times) This spilt over into pettiness on other things. She moved on, and is now much happier working somewhere else.

How small things can escalate into prejudice.

I still don't understand why it is permissible to circumvent the religious law in this way - why not just rescind it? Eiither it is a good and useful rule, or it isn't.

But a restriction that they don't need to live with, Lilygran? Much like the meat on Fridays, churching women after childbirth - not relevant, and doesn't undermine their commitment to their faith in their god if they got rid of it.

I think the fact that they are finding a way of living with the restriction shows it is very far from having lost its meaning.

That particular area of Salford and North Manchester comprises a thriving community of Jewish and Muslim shop owners, businesses and households living and working side by side. My cousin's Catholic grandchildren's primary school is sitated within the area were the eruv will be. I have a Muslim friend whose house is situated opposite the Jewish school, and she shops for the disabled Jewish man who lives next door. The Catholic Polish club is further up the road.The area that will be covered by the eruv will encompass houses and businesses occupied by several ethnic groups. The eruv will not create a ghetto as the existing community is well-establshed, with a mix of schools, social housing, private rented terraced houses and some leafy roads with very large private houses. Yes, there are some roads with more Jews than other ethnic groups, and other roads with more of the other ethnic groups.

I imagine it was easy to agree to the eruv, as it won't alter the make up of that community, or ghetto-ise it. However, to get back to the OP's point, I struggle to understand why Jewish people should have to do a silly thing like put a few wires up to satisfy a man-made idea that lost its meaning centuries ago.

My gran, who was staunch C of E, would never dream of eating meat on a Friday! We also always had fish at my C of E school.

Lilygran - you have misunderstood me. I meant that the ban on normal activities has a negative effect, not the eruv.
I stand corrected on the 'no meat on a Friday' rule and I am glad the Christian churches have moved on a little, although there is a long way to go in all the principal religions in recognising women as full equals of men.

Lets start with catholics, the rules about not eating meat on Fridays and some other days were withdrawn about 50 years ago. Some catholics may still observe this long defunct rule but that is a personal choice and fish and chips still seems to be the standard Friday food preference of many people who have never had any connection with catholicism. Anyway the rule was to not eat meat, fish was not the mandatory alternative. In the catholic household I was brought up in we rarely ate fish on Fridays, our main Friday dish was usually cheese and vegetable based and probably worked out much cheaper than fish or meat, including chicken.

As far as the Eruv is concerned it has a history in Judaism going back to biblical times and having just listened to a discussion on the issue on R4 I do not think that the Sabbath rules are completely suspended within it, just relaxed slightly. I believe the tradition of the Eruv was developed at much the same time as the Sabbath rules for the conditions at the time.

Many religious rules come from cultural practices developed for practical reasons in their countries of origin that then become fossilised as religious practices. One of the big differences between Christianity and the other great monotheistic religions of Judaism and Islam seems to be that generally Christianity has not fossilised cultural practices. This is why catholics now eat meat on Friday with impunity and no mainstream branch of Christianity still churches women after childbirth or buries suicides in unconsecrated ground