Is it hypocrisy for Jewish communities to erect an eruv?

Not sure how the eruv has a negative effect? The young mother who was being interviewed this morning on Radio 4 said how much more convenient it would be after the eruv is completed.

My personal opinion, as one who does not follow a religion, is that ideas which dictate how to restrict your life without a reasonable explanation, should be done away with.

The proposed eruv will not be too intrusive because it uses existing boundaries like rows of houses and other buildings, and where there are gaps, a wire will be suspended high up between telegraph poles or lamp-posts. Where there is no such provision, poles will be erected and painted to match lamp-posts. They've done it in other parts of the country.

These FAQs explain.

www.eboreruv.org/faqs.asp

As Jesus said 'The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath'.

On other words, it's the spirit of the law that matters, not the letter. But try convincing lawyers ( of whatever persuasion) of that.

Lawyers love to define, and define precisely. It's a very specialised mindset, useful in some contexts, not in others. But people are free to follow or to ignore as they choose.

As for the Friday non meat eating Catholics, that regulation was discarded fifty years ago. What we are supposed to do now is to eat a very simple meal and give what we have saved to the poor and hungry. Some will, some won't, but that's the spirit of the advice.

I think it is hypocritical as it seems to me to circumvent the original concept of the Sabbath and the Orthodox Jews who benefit from one would still be critical of Jews without the benefit of one behaving as they then can with one ( beautifully constructed sentence). What also I find rather disturbing is the 'ghetto' like conatation of a defined Jewish area . However, I have to admit to an antipathy towards Orthodox Judaism and their attitude to women in particular .

Lets start with catholics, the rules about not eating meat on Fridays and some other days were withdrawn about 50 years ago. Some catholics may still observe this long defunct rule but that is a personal choice and fish and chips still seems to be the standard Friday food preference of many people who have never had any connection with catholicism. Anyway the rule was to not eat meat, fish was not the mandatory alternative. In the catholic household I was brought up in we rarely ate fish on Fridays, our main Friday dish was usually cheese and vegetable based and probably worked out much cheaper than fish or meat, including chicken.

As far as the Eruv is concerned it has a history in Judaism going back to biblical times and having just listened to a discussion on the issue on R4 I do not think that the Sabbath rules are completely suspended within it, just relaxed slightly. I believe the tradition of the Eruv was developed at much the same time as the Sabbath rules for the conditions at the time.

Many religious rules come from cultural practices developed for practical reasons in their countries of origin that then become fossilised as religious practices. One of the big differences between Christianity and the other great monotheistic religions of Judaism and Islam seems to be that generally Christianity has not fossilised cultural practices. This is why catholics now eat meat on Friday with impunity and no mainstream branch of Christianity still churches women after childbirth or buries suicides in unconsecrated ground

Lilygran - you have misunderstood me. I meant that the ban on normal activities has a negative effect, not the eruv.
I stand corrected on the 'no meat on a Friday' rule and I am glad the Christian churches have moved on a little, although there is a long way to go in all the principal religions in recognising women as full equals of men.

My gran, who was staunch C of E, would never dream of eating meat on a Friday! We also always had fish at my C of E school.

That particular area of Salford and North Manchester comprises a thriving community of Jewish and Muslim shop owners, businesses and households living and working side by side. My cousin's Catholic grandchildren's primary school is sitated within the area were the eruv will be. I have a Muslim friend whose house is situated opposite the Jewish school, and she shops for the disabled Jewish man who lives next door. The Catholic Polish club is further up the road.The area that will be covered by the eruv will encompass houses and businesses occupied by several ethnic groups. The eruv will not create a ghetto as the existing community is well-establshed, with a mix of schools, social housing, private rented terraced houses and some leafy roads with very large private houses. Yes, there are some roads with more Jews than other ethnic groups, and other roads with more of the other ethnic groups.

I imagine it was easy to agree to the eruv, as it won't alter the make up of that community, or ghetto-ise it. However, to get back to the OP's point, I struggle to understand why Jewish people should have to do a silly thing like put a few wires up to satisfy a man-made idea that lost its meaning centuries ago.

I think the fact that they are finding a way of living with the restriction shows it is very far from having lost its meaning.

But a restriction that they don't need to live with, Lilygran? Much like the meat on Fridays, churching women after childbirth - not relevant, and doesn't undermine their commitment to their faith in their god if they got rid of it.

I still don't understand why it is permissible to circumvent the religious law in this way - why not just rescind it? Eiither it is a good and useful rule, or it isn't.

Son's partner comes from an Orthodox family, and is restricted in what she does on the Sabbath. We don't schedule family get-togethers for a Saturday, but often see them on Sundays.

She encountered resentment from a new immediate boss in her previous job, for being allowed to leave work early on winter Fridays to be home before sunset (despite working longer hours on other days to more than compensate, and being conscientious and a hard worker at all times) This spilt over into pettiness on other things. She moved on, and is now much happier working somewhere else.

How small things can escalate into prejudice.

It sounds very strange. But it's fine by me.

I wonder how the young mothers will get the babies inside the eruv before they can start carrying or pushing them.

It's part of their law. Seems quite a sensible part.

I think it's helpful to be curious about each other's traditions and rituals, in order to understand and tolerate one another. The eruv won't intrude on anyone's lives, but a fence would. Going home early on Friday but working to make it up on other days shouldn't be a problem for anyone, either. I had staff members who weren't Jewish, but wanted to go home early on Fridays occasionally - we accommodated it as long as it wasn't abused.

I just struggle to understand why religions create and peretuate these restrictive rules. Why not exercise ther brains by creating more rules that are caring of other humans, like tithe, feeding the poor, doing voluntary work? In a world where so many are in dire poverty and need, stringing up a few poles and wires so someone can carry a basket of washing across the road, or back the car into the driveway, makes no sense.

My DH employed an orthodox jewess who took advantage of the Friday thing (amongst other problems with her performance) . Her friend, also employed, was furious with her.
Yes "when" there are quite a few religious laws, in various religions, that are just kept up because they are traditions, whereas originally there was often some logic behind them, given understanding of hygiene and disease transmission that prevailed 3 or more thousand years ago. The book of Leviticus makes fascinating reading.

This may be a simplistic comment, but if any other group ( I use the term loosely) sought to create such a boundary (again the term is used loosely) there would be an outcry.
I agree with previous comments, if people don't like the restrictions then the should not let them impede on their lives.

In my teens I used to go into next-door and turn the lights on on a Friday evening - the shabbos-goy, that was me... It seemed silly to me then, but they were nice people, so what the hell... It all seems just as silly now.

Did you read of the couple who 'couldn't' leave their flat on the Sabbath, because there was a motion detector that turned on the light in the hallway?

Meshugas...

Leviticus makes fascinating reading - if you can stomach it...

ogm the boundary to an eruv is already dictated by existing buildings and the rest is akin to putting up a few telephone wires, which won't affect anyone. Still, makes no sense to me on other levels.

I think hypocrisy is a rather emotive word and I would hesitate to apply it here. To me the eruv simply defies logic, period.
If one is not allowed to carry or push objects from home into the street on the Sabbath, why does the designation of an area, either by existing buildings or the placement of a wire, suddenly make it ok?

But MiceElf I don't think orthodox Jews would take a great deal of notice of the views of Jesus Christ.
It doesn't worry me too much and I don't think hypocrisy is a problem. I suggest its just another ritual to allow people to encourage the mind away from worldly matters for one day a week. It's still pretty restrictive.

The point about religious restrictions is surely not that they make practical sense but that you obey them? It helps community cohesion and keeps those who accept them, mindful of who they are and who they believe in. It's no use looking for practical explanations, it's like explaining miracles. If you can explain it, it's not a miracle.