The one book of theology atheists should read

Bags I'm sorry if I used the wrong word. I did n't have you in mind when I posted that.

I think it is very clever the way the sunflower seeds are methodically packed in the flower head. If that is what is meant by mathematics, yes. Very nice.

It could be called God's artistry.

Grannypam I haven't got a clue where I, personally, would be without mathematics.

I agree that arithmetic is very useful.

I did say 'often', feetle!

"Pure Maths is true poetry." Theseus (DH) Said during one of our debates about our particular subject specialisms, and, when he explained (at length) I saw what I had missed in the basic Maths that I had been taught. Can't do the Maths, but I can appreciate it.

Now all I have to do is get him to have the same experience with a Spencerian sonnet...

I think the book looks interesting; I too shall download a sample and have a look. Someone said that, if you have the slightest, tiniest thought that god might exist, then you cannot count yourself an atheist, or even an agnostic. I think it was Descartes, but will check. It is certainly where I am.

But the definition of an agnostic is someone who acknowledges that they do not know and this means that the existence of god is not necessarily ruled out. Personally I regard the possibility of the existence of a god as being vanishingly small, but I am not prepared to be dogmatic.

I too have an OH for whom maths is a fascination - it is a great help when buying presents, as I just get some obscure book on maths that I know he has not got and I am flavour of the month! But he does also appreciate poetry.

There's a connection between maths and theology - the study of gematrias.
Especially in the Old Testament.
Numbers are assigned to words and phrases and then you search for the same patterns elsewhere, and find connections between them.
I think it comes into Kabalah.
Also mathematical patterns underlying the creation of the universe.
I don't know details, just been told about it.

But words and phrases are man-made and culture/time-specific- no way they could have any connection whatsoever with eternal universal truths outside of human invention. That is not even theology, it is ignorant superstition and about as valid as staying in bed on Friday the 13th to stay safe from . . . what exactly?

Yes, mathematical patterns underly the structure of the universe. They are in the way one atom of existence interacts with another atom because of the positive and negative forces of their subatomic structure and their arrangement, and the way combinations of atoms then interact with other combinations of atoms.

Connecting that with a supposed number assigned to a particular combination of letters in a word arbitrarily plucked from one language out of thousands is the act of a megalomaniac who would like to promote his (usually his) own theory to the gullible.

Book now on my reading list. Reading two others at the mo so it'll have to wait or I'll get confused between the long dark tea time of the soul and ... see, I can't even remember the title of the other book I'm reading – something about living the good life in the highlands. The narrator is annoying me.

thatbags - you mean you are reading St John of the Cross. Really !!!????

No, mice – fat chance! – Douglas Adams, he of hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy fame.

Don't know which is the harder going

Yes, well, there is that. Another reason for not starting to read something else yet.

And the answer to the meaning of life the universe and everything is....42.

I still haven't been told why atheists should read this one book.

Because it's a book which addresses many misconceptions about those who have a religious belief often held by atheists, and discusses the history and context of the development of religious ideas. Surely even atheists do not have such closed minds that they do not find these matters of interest.

Most of the theology I read is in a book called Vegetarianism: A history by Colin Spencer. The first chapter is called In the Beginning, and it discusses every religion you can think of.
My eldest son is a head of music and he has A levels in music, maths and physics.

Thanks MiceElf. I just wondered. I suspect atheists whose minds are not closed have probably read quite a few books on theology, although that, of course, doesn't stop them having misconceptions about faith.

I agree with absent - I think the assumption that atheists and agnostics have not looked into the subject of religion is as mindless as the idea that all people who have a religious faith are nuts and know nothing about science.

There are open minds (and intelligent debate) at all points on the belief-non-belief spectrum.

I'd say as many of those with faith have misconceptions about how much those without it have read and thought about religion, and ethics, as the other way round.

In truth, if someone follows unquestioningly one set of rules for behaviour and belief, of any kind, there is a danger that any other set may be regarded as inferior, or even wicked and sinful, just because they are "not what we believe".

I don't think that anyone (me?) is disagreeing with that view Mishap. Absent asked a question. I responded. But you know as well as I do that there are closed minds amongst many atheists and a great deal of ignorance too.
Just as there are amongst those who have a religious belief, of whatever religion.

However, the reason why Lilygran signposted this book in particular, was because if anyone is genuinely interested in the 'why' of religious belief, rather than reading theology per se, this is an excellent analysis.

Nobody HAS to read anything. It's for those with a questioning mind who express an interest in these matters without being specialists.

In the same way that this was recommended I would always take recommendations for reading from those who have a deeper knowledge than I about subjects on which my knowledge is slight but my interest is great.

Yup - got all that MiceElf - we were just following up on absent's post.

Clearly no-one is obliged to read anything at all if they do not wish!

Does not mean that the suggestion of the book as worth reading is not taken on board.

I can see why it is recommended as a book that atheists should read because we ought to know what we don't believe in and argue our case from an informed position. However it is rather patronising to assume that can't do just that.

I have frequently been annoyed by the attack on religion which determines what people of faith believe and then has a go at that, rather than what people actually profess. I include in that people who were indoctrinated in their youth and assume what they were told at age seven - or what they remember of what they were told - is what every adult believes. I posted the link because I thought the review effectively summed up Hart's argument on that point.

Back to maths. What on earth was algebra all about? Simultaneous equations Quadratic equations. Never found a reason for struggling with it.
Suppose it was just for sharpening the brain?