Faith or indoctrination?

You may have missed the fact that significant numbers of British citizens are not Christians and that it is a reasonable aim to provide some information which might help cross-cultural understanding from an early age and might help our young people to grow up less prejudiced than some of their elders. At no stage was I doing Christianity down, simply accepting that Christians don't have a monopoly. No-one is actively trying to recruit or evangelise. Our schools should be providing for a wide spectrum of beliefs and families who do not agree still (so far) have the option of faith schools. I'd also agree with anyone who advocates the abolition of faith schools since parents/communities might then take responsibility for passing on their firmly-held beliefs.

Forgive me, but aren"t we a Christian country??

Have I a missed something along the way ?

Largely agree Atqui. As far as basic morals and ethics go that's the parents' reponsibility but when teaching facts about world religions there is a place for the school's input - not trying to teach children what they should believe but giving an overview in the hope that it will help the understanding of the customs and traditions of their classmates and fellow citizens. Different of course in faith schools. Far from children being put off, these lessons very often generated excellent discussion.

mcem's point about the discussions prompted by biblical stories is a good one. My sister (an atheist) taught RE and English to A level. She also ran a debating group. Providing things are taught in a balanced way, no single faith pushed as the only one and so on, I believe there to be value in teaching about religions. It should encourage children and young people to consider their own value system and question everything.

As I said earlier, I don't think that what is taught in school has that much influence, except to put children off religion. If it did, teachers wouldn't have the problem of hoping pupils will remember the knowledge that the government wants them stuffed with in order to achieve level whatever.
. In my opinion it is the day in day out influence of the parents that makes its mark.

Ps Should have added that this was according to the previous Scotland-wide guidelines (5-14) which has recently been replaced by Curriculum for Excellence.

Surprised this wasn't included in minibags' classroom. Alongside the tenets, celebrations and traditions of the main world religions the Easter story was related to upper primary pupils in every non-church school where I taught. Evangelising was strictly forbidden so as with any lesson about religions, it would be prefaced with 'christians believe that this is what happened (or muslims/ sikhs/jews believe). This was an integral part of the RME curriculum and as with everything else, the appropriate boxes had to be ticked. Watching the film Jesus Christ Superstar prompted some excellent, thought-provoking discussion with classes of 11 year-olds.

Yep! Grandsons love it. The goryer the better.

On the subject of sparing children the more horrific aspects of historical events, how can anyone have missed horrible-histories.co.uk? Nothing but!

Good luck with that.

Hmmmmmmm.perhaps I shall read Richard Dawkins .

My two GSs went/go to a church school so I guess they would have been taught the whole of the Good Friday and Easter story. And, of course, they go to church so would have become acquainted with it there. I'm not sure if non-church primary schools teach it or not.

We, of course, had never mentioned it at home either, just as we haven't mentioned other barbaric punishments and primitive revolting 'cultural' practices that some people inflict on others. There is no need for children to know about such things.

I meant, she wasn't 'taught' it (told the story) in primary school. She was taught some ethics though (also without knowing that particular word), which is much more important in my view.

I'm not aware that Minibags was taught about the crucifixion. Hang on, I'll go and ask her....

...nope, she wasn't.

It has been mentioned at secondary school, though she didn't know the word crucifixion.

I don't think anyone's saying that, Mishap - certainly it's 'taught' in primary schools, but not in detail. Children of that age have no idea what pain and suffering would be involved in being nailed to a cross and left to die, and I'm sure no teacher would want to describe it to them.

It's just a story to them, and the fact that he supposedly rose again (and didn't die) captures the imagination of little children.

The world is indeed steeped in cruelties, but we don't deliberately teach them to our children. We try and explain them when asked and acknowledge how wrong they are, but we do not go out of our way to present them to children. Why would we?

I do not think I am describing one or two primary schools. I would be surprised if there were any people who did not get the crucifixion as part of their primary school curriculum. I certainly do not know anyone who was not taught this at school.

PS Good luck with your quest

atqui, I do feel I was indoctrinated but I was also taught how to question everything whoch kind of cancelled out the indoctrination in the end. Not that I think I ever had any actual religious faith. I tried very hard to believe what I was told was The Truth but I was a dead loss in that respect. It was a great relief when I realised I could stop trying to believe stuff I really thought was bullshit.

On the other hand, I don't think people who do have religious faith can always ratonalise it. It seems to be just a 'gift'.

My ethical beliefs are the same as, or very close to, those of the christians and other religious people I do know so I don't feel I'm missing out.

I honestly don't think children take much notice at all of the figures of Christ on the cross. To them it's just a statue. They vaguely know what and who it is, but they don't usually think a lot about it. I think you were unlucky Mishap.

Church/chapel is not what I was talking about though, Mishap - just the RE teaching we had in our primary school. I never went to Church or Sunday School.

(Actually, when I think about it, it was called RI in those days - religious 'instruction' rather than 'education'!)

I've just read through this thread. I grew up in what I now see was a liberal, christian family. I went to Sunday school, and to church until I was 15 and we moved house. I went back to church in my 30's, after various life experiences got me reflecting on faith.
I never felt indoctrinated. My mother was open to discussion about anything and everything, and was not dogmatic. "some people believe" etc was her mantra.
My children went to an Anglican high school, where Re was mandatory to GCSE. The school taught comparative religions, and covered all the main religions (and were open to discussions about humanism, atheism, etc)

I agree with Lylygran and Mice's posts

Of course Good Friday is horrific. It's an account of murder, torture and injustice. Exactly what we see on our television screens every day.

Just today we heard about over 240 Nigerian girls kidnapped and disappeared, hundreds killed on Syria, children dying in many countries but principally in the Sudan and the Horn of Africa and so on. Just a year ago a young soldier was hacked to death outside a school quite close to where I live. Don't for one moment imagine that children don't know all about these instances of a flawed humanity.

The point of Easter is the hope for humanity and the possibility of transcending some of the horrors which are part if all our experience. I'm sorry that one poster feels that she was damaged by hearing the Easter story, but that feeling should not be extrapolated to everyone. Neither should the experience of one or perhaps two primary schools be taken as typical of all.

It wasn't glossed over for me - gruesome life-sized images next to you in chapel!

If it needs glossing over, maybe it should be left out for children. I know that makes a nonsense of the rest of the story, so maybe we should leave it all till they are older and teach it in comparative religion at secondary school.

I agree, jingl. I think the crucifixion was glossed over rather in primary school. I certainly never had nightmares about it.