Paganism

Didn't someone say 'if there wasn't a god, we'd have to invent one?'

I think man created God [or Gods] not the other way round out of a need for something spiritual in their lives and it's up to us to decide in which form that takes. Problem is, being mankind there are always people that abuse those beliefs for their own gain in numerous ways. If I pray [which I do] or light a candle [which I also do] I'm not sure who I'm praying to or lighting the candle to either; there is just a primevil need in me to do so. I do think that, of all the religions, Christianity is the one that evolved more from Paganism than the others because it's basis is love and respect for all things.

I agree with you Jingle

I meant "a bit vague as a religion"

It just seems a bit, as a religion. I love nature, sometimes. But what do you actually worship? Or pray to?

I must admit I prefer a nice Archbishop of Canterbury, or even a Pope, to some local female chanting and waving her arms around.

Some of the older farmers round here talk about "la Nature" as if it was a spiritual thing, a powerful force. They're otherwise completely secular, so it seems to be a substitute for religion.
The forces of nature dominate their lives, decide what the work of the day is, determine whether they get a good harvest etc. Maybe they have superstitions about it too - I'll have to ask them.
But the word paganism to me is linked with satanism.

* Ariadne*

and a belief in a fairly new religion which saw torture on a cross as redemption

Also as a means of gaining compliance - on my first holiday in Adelboden, I saw a small building (can't remember if it was a chapel or not) and there is an old mural on the one wall that is still clearly visible. The mural is a scene of what happens to people who got to hell - one of the few occasions my jaw dropped - talk about explicit strangely enough, it had a lot to do with bottoms

The argument seems to be between a belief in things natural and ancient, and a belief in a fairly new religion which saw torture on a cross as redemption. Both sets of beliefs have had adherents which perverted the basic tenets.

Satanism is often called "witchcraft" but it is black witchcraft and overtly celebrates evil. Wicca celebrates living things, and that "wisdom and spirit of the universe" which Wordsworth talks about. Can't see much wrong in that.

Oh yes. Pretty well yesterday that.

More 'up to date':

Giordano Bruno was the last person to be burned alive at the stake on orders from Rome, executed in 1600 for a collection of heretical beliefs including Copernicanism, belief of an unlimited universe with innumerable inhabited worlds, opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about the Trinity, divinity of Christ, and Incarnation.

Not like Copernicus knew what he was talking about was it

Horse sacrifice anyone?

Well, if we're going that far back, I'll bet there are some appalling pagan rituals we could dig up.

And the church went ballistic when someone suggested the world was round instead of flat!

My mind is definitely closed against anything which could be connected to witchcraft. And paganism could well be. It is wrong

But wouldn't a belief in witchcraft, in that sense, mean you believe they could turn people into toads or some such?

From what I have read, the whole 'witchcraft' accusation was nothing more than a failure to understand the properties of the natural world that others did understand - for example: healing qualities of plants (or harm that could be done I suppose). The Christian church was very fond of shouting 'heresy' at anything it didn't understand. When some Medieval physicians started to show an interest in physiology and, gasp in astonishment, anatomy (when everyone knew that the correct way to diagnose and cure people was to draw up a horocscope of the ill person - not want to dabble with their innards or, even worse, their blood or urine) was accused of heresy.

Jingle is right to point out that children have been hurt in the name of witchcraft.

All the faiths will have individuals who exploit their situation to gain access to children for the purpose of meeting their own perverted sexual desires.

Marelli. I'd say a lot of people who are truly 'in' to old Paganism are not really into advertising themselves. Witchcraft was considered illegal until the 1950's and Pagan's were by nature underground up until (and beyond) that time for fear of being persecuted. There's a trend now of 'New Age' Paganism, with pentagrams and spells and suchlike, which is very trendy, but far removed from its true origins. I think true old Pagans are insular folk, who have no need, or indeed want to go out to sell their beliefs to a very (seemingly) hostile world

My mind is definitely closed against anything which could be connected to witchcraft. And paganism could well be. It is wrong.

Suit yourself...as I said, lots of closed minds out there!

Why bother?

of thunder

'Most people associate paganism with witchcraft'. Well if they do, they shouldn't. They should read up on it!

Does seem to be a fact that most people need to believe in something. But Thor, the God thunder with his hammer - come on!

Sorry Micelf but Marion Zimmerman Bradley is the one Arthurian writer I can't stand!

Most people associate paganism with witchcraft. And horrible things have been done to children in the name of that, even in this country. Best keep away from such things and stick to a religion grounded in love and kindness. Which is what true Christianity is.

It's all just wishful thinking - all of it...

I don't understand how reiki can be thought 'non-Christian'. Didn't Christ lay his hands on people to heal them? There are some very closed minds out there...