To Nativity or not to Nativity?

It's the innocence of Nativity plays and Santa Claus that I love. I think most children naturally 'grow out' of Santa (or keep saying they believe to hedge their bets!) but can well imagine the conundrum granjura and many others must face, no easy answers I fear.

Perhaps told the story here before. At one primary school where I was on teaching practice (I was going into secondary teaching, but we had to do one in a primary school)- some of the younger teachers had managed to persuade, with great difficulty, the Head to allow a Diwali celebration, as the school had about 35% of Hindu children- but only since recently. A great show, with all the children taking part, and a great success. It was the first time so many of the Indian parents had come to a school show and I thought it was wonderful to get them more involved in the life of the school. At the end, the Head stood up, and said what a fantastic evening it was, and blablabla- and I had a warm glow in my heart. And then she finished 'and now let's bow our heads and pray to the good Lord Jesus who made such a wonderful evening possible' and went on with the Lord's Prayer. I nearly died of embarrassment.

The Vicar from the local Methodist Church regulalry came to do Assemblies at a High school I taught at. He did an Assembly on the day of Navrati, the Hindu festival of dance. He chose to talk about worshipping images with readings from the Bible, etc. Then he said some religions actually worship animals, even elephants, and said how ridiculous and wrong that was. About a third of the children present were Hindu and celebrating that day- and had shrines to Ghanesh in their homes. I was mild and meek then- and although I thought it was so so wrong- I never said anything. Nowadays I would have spoke to him and told him he had no right. I think I would actually have gone to the stage and stopped him, and asked him to leave. He had no right to do this.

Not surprised granjura, that was crass (not to put too fine a point on it)!
Because I was brought up, as were my DCs, in a rural community, pretty well 100% WASP, I am catching up pretty quickly as DGS goes to 2 very multicultural nurseries in London where every festival is celebrated and cultural diversities definitely embraced.
I love the opportunities children have nowadays which would never have happened when I was young but also only just starting to realise the issues this raises.
As C of E in a convent school my education couldn't have been more constrained and narrow, sadly.

I wonder where the vicar got his statistics from? My DGD1 junior school did not have a nativity but had a lovely concert in a local church with a mix of bible readings, songs incuding carols and secular seasonal songs,musical interludes poetry and prayers (written by the kids)but it was not a Nativity play! The two DGDs in Infant school took part in a play about angels visiting different countries to see what children did at Christmas. There was a tableau of the holy family with shepherds /kings etc and lots of songs from different parts of the world. Not a traditional nativity.
I think Winter Festivals are not all bad! After all most of our cultural 'traditions' are pre Christmas! Decorating homes with greenery, burning the Yule log, wassailing etc are part of Pagan traditions. I suspect the 'Christmas' food is probably also traditional winter food!
A Winter Festival can include the Winter Solstice, Divali, Christmas and Hannukah which all fall late Autumn to mid-Winter.

That insensitive minister must be related t the chap who came to delicver an Eater assembly at a school where i worked. he held up 6 inch nails and a mallet and proceeded to explain, in graphis detail, to the 4-7 year olds just how excruciatingly painful it would be for Jesus. I stepped in before any of them actually passed out, cried or threw up!

When I was a child, I always believed Jesus was the only person ever to be crucified , it was only in my 30s that I realised that it was very 'common' for criminals in those days.

Don"t over think it , TMM , just enjoy it for what it most assuredlely is.

How awful , Penstemmon - I wonder if it could have been him.

POGS I will tell you if you promise not to tell anyone else - it is the international space station going over at 6pm which times with Santa going on his rounds. However, had to fend off some awkward questions from DGD1(age 6) this afternoon - why is FC going over at 6 o' clock, we won't be in bed, is he delivering our presents early, how does he manage to get round the world in that short time and deliver to all those children etc. Oh dear, exhausting to keep one step ahead! We said that he had been to Australia and delivered to her cousin and was en route to Eastern Europe where the children were asleep in bed.

granjura I can see that it is not a good idea to tell fibs and encourage children to keep secrets, but it is such a widespread 'fib' I think we can be forgiven.

Why do you all keep saying Santa isn't real

He will definitely be coming to my house.

I know, I know ;)

But what do you say the day GS or GD looks you straight in the eye and says 'Granny is Father Christmas a fib, honest?' - I think I'll have to tell hime the truth.

But then what do I say when he looks me straight in the eye and asks 'Granny, do you believe in God?' - will have to tell him the truth too.

'Jesus' well that one is easier, perhaps.

Let's enjoy it whilst it lasts, hey ;)

I did say he will be doing his rounds .... he will not miss you out vq !

Don't forget the carrot for the reindeer as well as the mince pie and whisky/sherry/whatever keeps Santa going

Of course you would have to tell the truth if asked whether you believe in God or not, granjura. That's not the same as saying that God does not exist.

There are ways of avoiding telling outright lies when it comes to Santa, though.

To me Santa embodies the spirit of Christmas so, to me, he is real.

'Netmums' did a survey and only a third of their schools have a nativity play, my DD belongs to it. She was very upset that her DCs wouldn't have a traditional nativity play, it was all elves and Santas and animals. When DS started school 15 years ago I was horrified when I realised that he wasn't going to have a nativity, I had been so looking forward to him being in one. But we moved after only a year at that school and his next school did still do it. Richard and Judy tried to revive the flagging nativity play, showing a few clips from several schools a week leading up to Christmas and loads of photos. I remember watching those and being annoyed that such a lovely tradition was disappearing.

I was Mary. I was furious, because I wanted to wear Baby Jesus' beautiful frilly christening gown but it wouldn't fit me. Instead I was lumbered with an old blue tablecloth tied at the waist with my father's oldest tie, and a dyed teatowel for my head and a bathtowel as a cloak. Pah.

What an honour, janer! I wasn't even an angel, I was a shepherd.

Did they have female shepherds in those days? I know they do a grand job nowadays but I can't remember a reference to a 'shepherdess' in the bible.

People who say they don't believe in father Christmas don't get any presents in this house!

It didn't feel like an honour, rosequartz. What 5 year old wants to be lumbered with a long blue sheet dress and headdress when she could be wearing a shiny tinsel halo and wings in white, like her friends?

That's what MiL says, rubysong! In fact all their presents say on them 'with love from Santa'.

Penstemmon I would have thought that 'Eater' assembly might have gone down better at Weightwatchers or Slimming World.