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Religion/spirituality

What secularism is

(191 Posts)
thatbags Tue 23-Dec-14 08:06:49

Very good description of what secularism is, posted because so many people seem to misunderstand the term and to think that secualrism is anti-religion. It isn't. One can be religious and a secularist. One can be non-religious and a secularist.

My father, a devout Catholic, was the first secularist I knew.

absent Tue 30-Dec-14 20:17:35

soontobe It must be obvious that bags is using the word suppression in its commonest and clearest way. What she is saying is that states, such as the Soviet Union, which actively prevent the practice of religion and may even persecute believers with the intention of ending religious belief by force, are not secular in the way described in the OP, but are anti-religious. China's suppression of Buddhism in Tibet is another example.

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 20:20:38

Although you may be right about thatbags, I do not know her well enough to be able to say that myself.
And you cannot possibly answer on behalf of everyone that is in favour of secularism. Can you?

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 20:22:39

I could post some links of the many definitions of the word suppress.

absent Tue 30-Dec-14 20:22:58

I was replying about the meaning of a word about which I am fairly confident that I am correct. That was what you were querying but if you don't trust me, try a dictionary.

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 20:31:47

I was asking thatbags which definition of the word she was using. Not absent. Unless you are both the same poster?

There are a variety of different definitions absent.

Soutra Tue 30-Dec-14 20:34:39

There may be several parts to the definition of "to suppress" but they are all essentially the same- to curb, inhibit , put down by force, or prevent the dissemination of (information) so I wonder which definition you are referring to soontobe. And isn't this all a red herring anyway as a secular state is NOT one which suppresses religion so why raise an "Aunt Sally" just to shoot it down?
One of the first things in a discussion/ argument is to "define your terms" so it helps when both parties are talking about the same thing .

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 20:38:47

I thought a lot of posters dont like links, so I didnt put any.
Also, I thought a lot of posters like to google themselves, so again I didnt put links.

But if you insist!

Secularism is not, repeat not, in favour of suppressing religion

This is rather a central point to thatbags, it would seem, which is why I am addressing it.

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 20:40:16

a secular state is NOT one which suppresses religion

and you Soutra are using the exact same point, so off to link I will go.

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 20:54:23

www.thefreedictionary.com/suppression

dictionary.reference.com/browse/suppress

Actually, I realise that I can go on and on with links.

Soutra Tue 30-Dec-14 21:20:00

You can give all the links you like but can you explain in what way they fundamentally differ from each other?

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 21:27:17

Everyone can read.

Galen Tue 30-Dec-14 21:27:38

Soontobe
This is getting silly!
The accepted view by most of the posters is that there is a difference between states that suppress religions, and those that separate the state and religion!
In the second, the state is not influenced by any religious people or beliefs!

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 21:30:51

I have made my own points. I dont think that they need repitition.

Soutra Tue 30-Dec-14 21:32:30

But they are <whisper it> irrelevant. <shakes head in despair>

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 21:33:36

The second ends up being suppression, just using a different route. It uses the curb and inhibit method.

Ariadne Tue 30-Dec-14 21:36:17

confused Cannot follow your reasoning, soontobe in the context of the discussion.

Mishap Tue 30-Dec-14 21:39:44

The separation of state and religion does not suppress religion - it upholds the freedom of all people to practice the religion of their choice.

It does not curb nor inhibit religion.

Galen Tue 30-Dec-14 21:40:05

Goes to bed, shaking head in despair at illogical posters! moon

Mishap Tue 30-Dec-14 21:43:20

Night night galen!

Soutra Tue 30-Dec-14 21:44:52

"Curb and inhibit method". - what on earth are you talking about? These are indeed synonyms of "suppress" so WHAT on earth do you think this is leading to and *how could thatbags be using an "alternative " definition?

Not following your reasoning either sad

Soutra Tue 30-Dec-14 21:45:55

Sorry about shouty bold -forgot the second *. !

whenim64 Tue 30-Dec-14 21:46:26

What on earth is going on? Someone been putting too much sherry in the trifle? [grun]

whenim64 Tue 30-Dec-14 21:47:19

grin like me???

soontobe Tue 30-Dec-14 21:58:06

The end from me too.

Penstemmon Tue 30-Dec-14 22:07:51

The teaching about a religion is surely the responsibility of that religion's leaders/priests/elders etc .

Governments should not prefer /promote any one religion/faith/non-faith.

Schools, in a secular state, should not teach or promote a religion but about religions & belief/non-belief.

I do not believe a secular state in any way threatens the continuance, or growth, of any particular religion.

Does anyone recall doing nativity plays in their primary school? I don't but I do remember doing so at Sunday school.