A view of what faith is

So by that doctrine, you could spend a long life hurting and destroying others, or wrecking the planet (or the universe that god created) so that no other living creature could have any kind of existence, and then when death is near and the mouth of hell is yawning before you, you could earn eternity in heaven by saying the right thing?

But if you spent that life helping others, saving lives, preserving the wonders of the planet the further stars and universe, because you loved your fellow-men and you valued the miracle of creation, you would then spend eternity in hell?

Do you have children? Would you only feed and clothe the ones who admitted that you were the boss and the most wonderful mother or father that ever existed?

A father who condemns his children to damnation until they worship him would be condemned himself for emotional abuse.

Earth is going to keep right on going right up until the moment of judgement. So by definition, most people will have dies, but the earths population on that day will still be alive.

mcem, re repenting. That is what the bible says.

Once anyone repents, they are forgiven.

Soon am I right in thinking that further back on this thread you said that if a sinner repents on his deathbed he'll go straight to heaven but also that heaven is only for christians.
How can you take that seriously?
You'd condemn good honest people to 'hell ' but would permit wicked evil ones to go to 'heaven' if at the last moment they declare themselves to be christians.
Sorry to use such simplistic terms but that seems to be appropriate in this discussion!

'Most of us will have died'? What does that mean?
I think Philip Pullman comes close to explaining the idea of returning to dust. (The Dark Materials)
His take on it makes sense to me.
There is a significant difference between evangelising and taking part in a discussion about faith.

I will keep my answers shorter.

Fair enough.

The answer is yes thatbags.

Thanks, when. It is getting a bit much, isn't it?

Answer my question, please, soon? Yes or no?

Here it is - under Netiquette:

Religion & Spirituality

We have a forum for this and we welcome posts on all religions and none. We are, though, a discussion forum, not a site for sermons.

Er.......isn't there something about Gransnet not permitting sermonizing? I won't preach at you, soon but please could you do your preaching somewhere else? Before we know it, it'll be coming from every direction.

Becoming a christian requires two things.

Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe that God raised him from the dead.

After that, there are things that God would like christians to do.
But if a person becomes a christians moments before they die, they will still go to Heaven.

Even for non-Christians who have devoted their lives to serving others?

Is salvation only for those who make much of how much they love and worship god, but not for those like Abou Ben Adhem.

When the recording angel tells him that he is making a list of those who love the Lord -

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And showed the names whom love of God had blest,
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

Is your hell for everyone who isn't a christian, soon?

ok.
Heaven exists.
Hell exists.

No one will want to go to hell, but some will be there[not at all talking about anyone on earth specifically]
We will all get judged.

Most of us will have died. Although we sleep we do not turn into stardust.
When we are judged by Jesus, some will go to Heaven, and some to Hell.
Some of the people who go to Hell will never say sorry for anything they have done wrong in their lives.

Heaven goes on for eternity.
Hell goes on for eternity.

This post is unpalatable for many.
I myself dont like writing it, but even churches water down the message. I myself, do not think it does people any favours.
Because if they dont know, how can people make their own personal choices.

You can talk about heaven and hell as much as you like, soontobe (if you think it is relevant) but that is just what you believe to be the truth.

What is being discussed here is the nature of faith, which needn't, of course, be in a Christian God or, indeed, in any God at all. "Faith" is a wide reaching term, and not confined to any specific set of beliefs. God is not the topic, necessarily.

"Faith based atheism" eh? Interesting concept, GK ( have you found the plot or is it lurking under the mince pies?)

tchchristmas! I've completely lost the plot now

Hehe bags that's because I just made it up (the phrase). I like it too... [tchchristmas]

Interesting, gknot... your phrase "faith-based atheism". I haven't heard that before and I'm not sure what I have faith in — Life probably, or Nature, or The Universe. You may be right but I'm not sure I'd call it faith because what I think changes when the evidence based on human observations changes.

Woteva

A lot of christians can do it themselves by reading their bibles.
Spiritual advisors are an add on.

Mishap I love your comments about atoms returning to stardust. . I am a non -believer, and happy to be so, and also happy for those who have religious belief.

Best discussed with your spiritual advisor.

I am not sure that anyone wants me to talk about Heaven and Hell.

Crossed posts, mishap!

"God can protect us if He chooses." - can't imagine why he would ever not choose to do so - that simply seems perverse - but there are countless examples where (if you believe the original statement) he chooses not to do so. Gives me the shudders.

I respect others' faith without understanding what it is where it comes from.

Moral behaviour (or aspiring to it) is not the sole province of those with faith (as others have rightly pointed out) - so I am not sure it matters at all for human happiness and the smooth running of society. Whatever your impetus to behave kindly and with decency, all that matters is that you do so.

Eternity is the province of those who follow on from us. I am not afraid of death - as far as I am concerned my atoms will return to the stardust and I will be as I was before I was born.

soontobe

I, and many others who don't believe in a god, take responsibility for identifying our rocks, our assurances, and who can help in trouble. As for protecting us, if he chooses, the less said about that in this troubled world, the better.

Perhaps you would like as many people as possible to experience that, but it isn't your choice.

Where is your evidence that it can secure eternity? And what would secured eternity mean for you or me? It has no relevance for me as an individual who is just here for a short time and will then become stardust again.

I'm not scared of dying and I won't be railroaded into being religious just in case!