Christianity. In the context of whether belief is actually necessary. Or not.

It is always interesting with cathedral organists - many have no faith and just use the post as access to an organ.

This thread interests me because there is another thread going ,about Muslims being offended . Why should Christians also not be offended, or is it because we are meeker and milder ?
Just saying.
It is quite amusing that the two are running side by side .
TBH It is quite a Mares nest.

Certainly know many Christians, here, in France, in the USA and all over- who are 'cultural' Christians- do not believe in any way, shape or form- but enjoy the music, the fellowship, the tradition, the pretty place for weddings and comforting place for funerals- etc. Some even say that unless we all do remain cultural Christians, even if we can't believe, the 'others' will just take over (which is very topical at the mo).

In Leicester, Chruches abandonned by the Christians have become Jain or Sikh Temples, Mosques, Chinese Churches, libraries, dance halls, warehouses, flats even... or derelict.

GS8 just before Christmas, swinging himself on the swing as high as he could go, stopped and said to me "Grandma, now I know about the Big Bang Theory, I don't believe in God anymore." Interesting what goes on in children's minds.

What are you actually saying Granjura? It all seems a bit mystical and convoluted?

There is a lot to be said for that point of view Granjura.

Anyone really want Sharia Law in the UK?

Disagree Jingl- but I am glad you understood what I was saying, lol.

Nonu- not sure how to re-phrase what I wrote. Many people who call themselves Christian to not believe- but continue to go to Church, at least at Christmas (our local Vicar always made sarcastic comments about how nice if was to see so many at Christmas, and how much he would enjoy seeing more on other Sundayy) and main personal events (weddings, funerals, baptism) for cultural reasons, and to prevent a vacuum that would let something else in. Forgot to mention those who do so in order to get a place for their kids at the local CofE or Catholic school btw.

We often talk about 'cultural Jews' - these days we also have 'cultural Christians' - not sure if that makes it any clearer.

Well sorry, do not disagree about not wanting sharia law- would be nice to just have human common sense and compassion though ;)

Human compassion and senseMUST be what we all strive for .
HOWEVER, Sharia law is a total different ballgame, anyone who thinks opposite, actually I cannot find the words

Agree- but is it a good idea, as jingl seems to say, to 'pretend' to be Christians, even without belief- to stop sharia law?

Isn't there a middle way possible?

Nature abhors a vacuum...

Non-belief in an organised religion doesn't create a "vacuum". Just because people are not religious doesn't mean that they are amoral. Many people who have no religious beliefs think very deeply about moral and ethical issues and try to live their lives without harming others.

Of course, probably just as many do not - but that can apply to religious people also who just "go with the flow" and don't really examine in any depth what they believe in or think about how it should influence their lives.

There is a middle and totally fair way, jura; it's called secularism. The same laws for all whatever their beliefs.

i would take issue with the statements that Christians are "meeker and milder", Nonu! They are supposed to be, but have been as violent in their history as any other sect. However , this is not the topic here.- it has been, and is being, widely discussed on other threads. So, to return to the OP:

I agree with you, granjura about "cultural Christianity". The myths (yes, I know not everyone will few the Bible as myth, but I do) imagery, music, narrative and especially language of this particular religion are embedded in our culture - what jingl so rightly calls "the sheer beauty".

I frequently found that, in order to teach literature, one needed to ensure that the students could understand the references to Christian stories as well as those in the Greek myths and legends, because they were part of every writer's culture in earlier times, and infused their works.

Yes jing we live in a Christian country - or at least one with a Christian culture, and so can appreciate the beauty of so much of the Christian tradition. I for one like the marking of the passage of the year.

Of course much of our law is based on this culture and most of the population in the UK like it that way.
I am not convinced that Sharia law or Jewish Law practiced by some in the UK should be enshrined in our Law.

My parents were Christians and brought us up in what I now feel was a liberal Christian tradition. My mother, in particular, was a free thinker who encouraged us to question both faith and politics, whilst taking a bit of a pick n mix approach to Christianity, adding bits of Budhism where it suited her approach to life.

I agree with jingle about the beauty of the music, language and art associated with the Christian faith. The art and architecture associated with the Muslim faith are equally impressive. Recent years have meant I've attended more funerals than I'd have liked. The humanist services have been excellent but I've missed the language of the Christian funerals and longed to sing one of the hymns traditionally associated with funerals.
The Sunday Assembly is a response to the need many people have to be part of something meaningful. It is non faith but meetings are held on Sundays and its popularity seems to be growing.

Again, maybe it is just me- but as much as I love music, and singing- those traditional funeral songs, and other Church songs always made me feel 'my word- what on earth does THAT mean' (or in short, and I am sorry if it offends, but it the way it feels 'what a load of drivel').

Many hymns are Victorian in origin and reflect the morals and attitudes of the time, some good some bad as we would see it today. Darn good tunes though!

Am also one of those non believers who loves Churches- from the majestic at Ely, Lincoln, Durham and so many more- to the amazing in its small perfection at Southwell, but also the tiny and very simple Churches all over the country- sometimes hidden well away from current villages (as in East Leics where so many villages were lost, but the Church remains). And the great big Saxon 'barn' at Brixworth- I could go on, I have so many favourites. And we live next to a lovely Church here (our house used to be the Vicarage since 1587)- but I am always very aware of the huge sacrifices made to build those Churches, to the detriment of the 'poor' and also the physical sacrifice of many in their building.

Which is why I always winked at the Lincoln Imp- put there by a non-believeing mason as a 'rude' gesture to the established Church that paid them and treated them poorly ;)

I too am a non-believer who loves churches and cathedrals. Years ago our whole family was in local church choir, as the person running it was a splendid musician and we all (and children in particular) had the opportunity to sing many interesting works. I just joined in the music and ignored the rest. The children had a good social life associated with it - and that was fine. They took in what was going on, asked questions, made up their own minds. Spotted the good things and the bad - the fervent christian who treated his wife cruelly was not lost on them.

I usually go to the cathedral carol service each year and enjoy the wonderful singing as a start to Christmas - I shut my ears to the garbage about women being responsible for all the world's ills which is the the reading that starts the thing off.

I think much of Christianity as commonly understood is Victorian - certainly the rather dainty 'Gentle Jesus, meek and mild' image comes from that era.

And the "rich man in his castle" etc.

That may be the general understanding of Christianity during the Victorian period, feetle but the 19th century was actually a period of extreme change and turmoil. There was the development of the evangelical movement and the start of the Oxford movement in Church of England, the start of the Salvation Army and other outreaching religious groups and, of course, a great deal of Christian-inspired and funded social and political reform. The 'gentle Jesus' is a Sunday School emphasis, nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately (it seems to happen in many faiths) when people drift away or walk away in anger they often do not move on from that level of understanding.

That is interesting, Lilygran. I was brought up as a "High" Anglican, and thus immersed in the music and the liturgy, both of which I still find extremely moving. I have never quite worked out whether it is just the words and music (to both of which I am very susceptible, given my life's work) or something more. Still thinking...

On another but relevant note, my children (all well into their 40s) and I have a daft occasional game called "Name that hymn" which anyone brought up on the hymn book "Songs of Praise" or, of course, "Ancient and Modern" could play. You either sing a bit of the tune, or recite a few words, then the others finish it. Sounds daft, I know, but I'm very good at it! DH looks on in disbelief - a scientist with a Wee Free upbringing.

I'm another nonbeliever who visits churches whenever I travel. I popped into the Brompton Oratory a few days ago when I happened to be passing. I am often awestruck by the magnificence of the interiors but, possibly depending on my mood, I can also be irritated by the opulence.

My mother is a Catholic. I attended her church with her in the days following the death of my atheist father. She has always enjoyed the singing of the choir so I asked if they would sing something non religious at my father's humanist funeral service. They obliged and I think my father would have approved.