Stephen Fry on meeting God ...

An interesting response.

What she is describing is HER god, which bears out my feeling that people create the god that they want or need, and that every believer actually believes in a different god. I don't regard that as a criticism, simply an observation; and this does not belittle their faith.

Aslan is/was amazing. How did CS Lewis get to embody God in a lion. And so realistically.

I think the main point she is making is that believers also argue with God and complain bitterly but go on believing. There's a well known story about a group of Jews in a concentration camp who agreed that in the face of such evil, God could not exist - on the lines of feetle's post - and then gathered to say evening prayers

Agree, Stephen Fry said a totaly good thing. Never believed in God and this allmighty thing

I love Stephen Fry - he has a brilliant mind. It took me a lot longer than he did to realise religion is just made up ideas, and that God is simply an imaginary friend.

But praying to this imaginary friend is a bit like meditation, and can bring about answers to problems and questions. These answers come from your own mind though, not from a supernatural personage. This is why two different people praying about the same thing, will come to two different answers.

I still love old churches, and the sound of hymns on a Sunday. I wouldn't mind betting that some members of congregations no longer believe but enjoy the social gathering , the music, and the camaraderie.

Joan that's a lovely post.

I'm very interested (and lucky) to be going to a discussion tonight between one of the founders of The Atheist Church and a theologian on the subject of whether you can have a church without God.

Excellent post Joan. GK- would love to hear about the talk and the conclusions. Thanks.

Me too, gknot. I have no problem with the idea of god as personal thoughts and the idea of church as a social/community gathering for mutual and individual support.

Agree bags

And I've always thought of mountains as natural cathedrals, I think it started from when I was a child and my uncle would take us kids along on hikes and make us observe silence and drink in the scenery.

Really liked Stephen Fry's reply and don't understand anyone who dismisses him as 'Just an entertainer' He is an actor, a raconteur, a writer, a campaigner and a spokesperson for many causes. He speaks openly and honestly about things that many people prefer to keep secret. Disagree with him by all means but show him some respect.
I understand totally Joan's post about the things which attract us to religion even though we don't believe. I have a big thing about gospel music and have sung in gospel choirs although I don't believe in god. It just sounds so good!
I wonder about the feelings that arise when I see a great painting or other work of art and if this is similar to what some people describe as faith ? Anyone help me with this?
Got to have an Oscar Wilde quote - 'Religion is like a blind man looking in a black room for a black cat that isn't there, and finding it.'

I'm probably repeating myself here but I feel that God and religion were two things invented by man..but we invented them because we had a need for them [and have done so since primevil times]. And I'm tempted to put art in the same category.

I'd love that too thatbags- but I'd like it without the pretence and the lies- and having to cross fingers behind your back when singing or saying the words...when reciting the creed, and so on. I suppose I am just a bad liar.

I love the idea of meeting just to share and love, and sing together- without all the lies and nonsense.

faith - no, it is nothing like the feelings of a great piece of art or music.
From the christian viewpoint, the bible says that faith without works [meaning good works] is dead.
So nothing similar at all.

And it does not help people, if christians never speak of their faith. It helps themselves only.

I find it strange that you, as an atheist, would feel the need to cross your fingers behind your back, granjura!

Who or what is going to strike you down for lying?

Well yes, good point. I just hate hypocrisy, always have. But mainly it is about respect- respect for those in the congregation, many of them friends- who are there because they truly believe what they are saying, and the Priest/Vicar. For instance also for our wedding- it seemed too important a day, too important vows- to mix them with lies.

Perhaps it's just me. We have family and friends who belong to so many religions and none- and we respect them and their beliefs- and would not wish to mock or demean.

That's interesting, granjura, although I'm not sure what you mean about respect in this instance. Are you saying you sing etc. out of respect for the rest of the congregation, or that you feel guilty about singing etc. when you don't believe the words so feel you have to cross your fingers out of respect?

(I'm also wondering why you attend such occasions when you're a non-believer and even got married in church, but never mind...)

I don't know of any Christians who would be offended by people of another faith or none joining in with their services.

I live in the Chichester diocese and was listening this morning to the Sunday morning religious programme on Radio 4. I didn't know but Chichester is a bastion of the old school i.e. do not believe in women Bishops. Surprised somehow - not sure why though .

No I do not attend Ana - because this is what I would have to do- eg feel uncomfortable and disrespectful for not believing most things I'd be expected to sing or say, or repeat. Last time I went was for my parents' funerals, and all I could thing was 'what a load of .......' about heaven and the resurrection, etc. I did what they'd asked ot me. Before that I went to some weddings, in Church for social/display reasons, and could not help but think- oh golly, but they, the couple, do NOT believe a word of what they are saying and repeating- so why? And once, when younger, I agreed to be a Godmother- and had to say that I did believe, and in the Trinity too- and that I took on the responsibility of bringing up the child in the Faith. It made me feel really bad- and I said, never ever again. Friends laughred and said 'don't be daft' it's only words, not a real promise, it does not matter - but to me, that was wrong. So no, I do not go- although the Church is 50 metres from our door and our house was the Vicarage for near on 450 years. As said, respect for myself not to lie, and respect for others for whom the words, concepts and promises do mean something.

Sorry granjura, I misunderstood - I thought you were saying that you attended services but felt hypocritical about doing so.

I certainly DID NOT marry in Church- as I would have felt it was wrong to lie on such an important day- just could not do it. But I do know many atheist who did get married in Church for the 'show' and video - can't you see this is disrespectful to the people of that faith and to the Vicar? The Vicar here was delighted that he would not have to officiate at another society non religious wedding, as he hates it- but he was invited as a friend.

As I said, I misunderstood your post/s granjura. No need for the accusatory tone!

I married in church, in spite of being agnostic. My MIL was very religious and would not have seen us as being married if we had not done so.I had no problem with that. You marry into a family and give and take is what is needed.

Oops sorry, certainly did not mean to have 'accusatory' tone- but felt a bit pieved you were misinterpreting what I was saying. No harm done.

Mishap, and each to their own. Our friend the Vicar actually went to talk to my grand-mother to say that as he knew I was not a believer, he was much much happier that we were honest about our vows and our sincerity. She took it from him. Each to their own, and each to their conscience- we felt strongly this is something we did NOT want to lie about, our vows. It is a huge step and for us, starting on the right and honest footing was very important.