Why does a Caliphate resonate with some British Muslims?

Perhaps - or they go for the sex: what other chance does a teenage Muslim girl have for a bit of bodice-ripping?

The women too?

Back to a few posts ago, I said I thought it was the violence that attracted some young ones. A researcher in Australia has just backed this up:

"Curtin University counter-radicalisation expert Anne Aly has been watching the positioning of Britain and other regions, such as Africa, attempting to stamp out extremism and she is alarmed.

“One of the things we need to not forget about is the violence in violent extremism, not just extremism per se, because that in itself is not against the law,” Aly says.

“It’s the violence. Often not the way we think it (radicalisation) goes is that somebody adopts the ideology, becomes a Salafi or Wahhabi and then they accept violence as part of the ideology. I am finding with my research, where we look at a database and personal case histories of more recent self-activated people like foreign fighters, it is actually the violence that is the first thing that attracts them and then the ideology comes as a way to justify the violence."

These bombing raids on the Kurds appear from the reports to have been sanctioned by Washington - or at least the US wilfully ignored what the Turkish government was likely to do.

It's a funny old world isn't it.

Once it had been discovered there were no WMDs in Iraq, and Blair and his cronies were clutching at other reasons to justify the invasion of Iraq, they cited humanitarian reasons - in particular, Saddam Hussein's massacre of the Kurds. That seems rather ironic now.

More recently of course, the Kurds were being praised by the UK and other western nations for standing up to and pushing back ISIL forces. Turkey and the US still viewed the PKK as a terrorist organisation but it seems they were willing to put their opposition "on hold" while the Kurds were receiving such acclaim for their role in fighting ISIL.

Meanwhile, it is suggested by many middle eastern experts that Saudi Arabia is arming ISIL - and yet nobody has suggested bombing Saudi Arabia or even officially questioning its role in the rise of ISIL.

It isn't surprising that this about turn has happened. Assad has been seen, whether rightly or wrongly I don't know, as public enemy no 1 so far as the west is concerned but because he is also fighting ISIL that opposition has been very muted of late.

The source of the problem is firstly the nations that are buying oil from ISIL - which nobody appears to want to investigate too closely - and secondly those nations/organisations that are supplying it with weapons

It is a war and needs to be fought on several different fronts.
I think Governments are being slower than the people on this.

Yes, I am truly horrified by this too. The Kurds are the best opposition to the daesh monsters. What is WRONG with the Turkish leadership??

I can't believe that Turkey bombed PKK positions. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The PKK have been the only effective force fighting Daesh (I refuse to give them any state title) on the ground. The have fought against this evil using obsolete weapons. Their women have fought alongside them.

And now, even though its own borders are threatened, Turkey turns its Air Force against the Kurds in the name of old grievances. What hope for a united front when this is the mentality of Middle Eastern governments?

Woman's Hour had a very interesting programme about this recently, here's a link to the programme which you can listen to on the website:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b062dh8s

This is the description of what the item covered: An anti-extremism campaign has brought Yazidi Iraqi women to schools to talk about being captured by IS. Baroness Nicholson, founder of the Amar Foundation explains why she wants to help the women tell their story.

Baroness Nicholson was really interesting. She talked about how, in her opinion, the Isis bunch are really just the Nazis reincarnated intent on exterminating entire groups of people on the basis of ideology. The part of the programme in which the Young Yazidi girls talks about their experiences was heart rending.

I found it almost unbearable to watch the wanton destruction of ancient artefacts and buildings from previous civilisations. Irreplaceable. Dan Cruikshank is always interesting. Painful programme though.

Did anybody see the BBC 4 program 'Dan Cruickshank's, Civilisation Under Attack'?

I found it very interesting and whilst it covered the destruction of antiquities by IS it was peppered with insight into the mind set of IS and it's followers. Try and catch it if you can find still available.

There is one thing for sure we are sleep walking into destruction unless the world wakes up to the speed of IS and it's followers. The pen is mightier than the sword as the saying goes , that's a load of old clap trap when it comes to those who want to rule the world as IS does. You need a bigger b----y sword and the realisation IS will not stop at any country's borders.

I quite agree Joan. All that cruelty, guns and young girls compelled to do exactly what they want them to do - its a nasty adolescent's wet dream.

Just had a look at this thread. I don't think the idiots who go to fight with ISIS are as deep as those talking about the caliphate. The ones in the article are not in favour of the methods used by ISIS.

The idiots go because they love violence, or for sex, or both. In a closed Muslim society in the West they are surrounded by young people shagging whoever they want, while they are supposed to remain chaste themselves. But ISIS promises a very young wife, and maybe a sex slave too.They probably also believe in the wonderful afterlife if they die as martyrs.

So - it is sex and violence they are after, with religion as a terrific excuse.

There is belief that 'good' Muslims reach that sort of paradise after death and sadly the radicalised youth believe this.

I wonder whether there is an element of a nostalgic longing for a time that never really existed in a world of universal prosperity and peace where Allah was given appropriate deference and adoration and blessings rained down on everyone.

It's pretty unlikely to happen that way and killing all and sundry doesn't seem a convincing route to such an end.

I think that some Muslims here want it all..... The fairness and democracy and capitalist system for themselves to make money etc and also they would like all women to be well wrapped up in public and perhaps walking a pace or two behind the men. you can't have both, either people have freedom or they don't.

I meant settled in their hearts to the British way of life. And laws. And possibly culture.

Two of my sons have lived abroad for a while. One in a European country, One non European country.
They live there because they like it there. They mix with everyone.

I actually find it hard to understand moving to a country that you do not like, or staying living in a country that you do not like.

I am not as au fait as a lot of people. I do not know how hard it is to leave Britain, if you dont have skills that other countries want.

I suppose what I am coming to is, if muslims dont like it here and want to leave, and dont have many skills, how easy is that to do? Or is it impossible and they are effectively trapped here.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'settled', soontobe.

The ones in the article seemed to be settled and wish this country no harm, but the vision of a Muslim state (run in what sounds like a communist manner) seems very alluring to them, which is worrying.

I've read the article. I may be dumb but I can't understand the difference between this idyllic Caliphate and the purely Muslim countries which already exist.
Is it their equivalent of the Messianic Age?

Sad and dangerous

I think it is now apparent, that some Muslims have not really settled in Britain. And it wouldnt have mattered how welcoming or not we were. . Very

Very interesting article, Anya - and disquieting!