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Julie Nicholson

(18 Posts)
Luckygirl Fri 03-Jul-15 21:58:52

This ordained minister in the C of E lost her daughter in the 7/7 bombings. She writes:

" I think that the simple, personal faith of people, whether that's Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, is at heart a beautiful thing. But when faith, any faith, becomes religious fundamentalism, that is a huge problem for me. And I think there is fear of doing the wrong thing, or making mistakes, or stirring up a hornet's nest, that stops us from engaging, in an honest and productive way, with religious fundamentalism in this country. We're not getting to the root of the enormous disaffection among young British Muslim people, and in particular, young Muslim men."

soontobe Sat 04-Jul-15 07:30:34

Wrong use of the word fundamentalism from Julie Nicholson.

ISIL are not muslim fundamentalists.
They have gone beyond their religion.

[I wont go into the meaning of christian fundamentalist again here, as there is a whole thread on that].

Just thought I will get that out of the way.

As regards young Muslim men. They can leave the country, and go to 27 or whatever the number is, other European countries if they wished.

absent Sat 04-Jul-15 07:42:22

soontobe How familiar are you with the Qur'an – in translation anyway as I don't suppose, like most of us, you can read Arabic? Apologies if I am wrong and you are not linguistically challenged by the text.

soontobe Sat 04-Jul-15 07:50:43

I have now read enough about the subject to know that ISIL are in no way keeping to the Qur'an.
Everyone knows that. So I will say again, that Julie Nicholson is not using the word correctly.

I would say that it is a bit of a side issue, but it is not.
Because people say that they want religious peace, but are actually doing the opposite by using wrong words.
Julie needs to read Boris's words which were also a thread on here.
Boris realises as do many others, that the use of words in today's ISIL arena, are important.

vampirequeen Sat 04-Jul-15 07:51:27

We need all our young people including young Muslims. Different people have different needs and we need to try to meet those needs to prevent disaffection and the weakening of the cohesion of our nation. The fact that needs are not being met can lead to extreme behaviour whether it's a young Muslim becoming part of ISIS or a young white person becoming part of the EDL or other racist group. We need to ask ourselves, "What makes extreme groups of any type attractive to young and how can we counter this?"

The UK doesn't have the reputation of being a nation of extremes but there seems to be a underlying currant of extremism which we need to deal with.

absent Sat 04-Jul-15 08:01:16

soontobe The Qur'an is as open to interpretation as the Bible or almost any other written work. Arabic is not one of the languages that I have learned, but I have read the Moslem Holy Book in translation, just as I have read the Christian Holy Book in translation. In fact, I have read both of them in different translations. I am not sure that "everybody" who "knows" has done the same. Have you? Of course, it still doesn't make me an expert on Islam and nor would it make you one either.

Anya Sat 04-Jul-15 08:08:50

There is no mention of so-called ISIS in the OP so why go down that path?

I think someone who lost a child in the 7/7 bombing should have her views listened to and with some respect.

This is not the time to nit-pick some imaginary error.

She speaks the truth when she says we are not getting to the 'root of the enormous disaffection among young British Muslim people'.

soontobe Sat 04-Jul-15 08:16:18

No I have not read the Qur'an.

No the Bible is not open to intepretation. People do but that is another story.

I still say, as do muslims, that ISIL are not keeping to the Qur'an.

Anya. The op is talking about muslims.

Anya Sat 04-Jul-15 08:20:47

Yes, S2B the OP is talking about Muslims, not about ISIS, ISIL, Al Shabaab, Boko Haram, etc..

Don't you understand the points I'm making?

Luckygirl Sat 04-Jul-15 08:28:56

Oh dear - I just wanted to give us all the opportunity to appreciate this woman and what she has to say - as an ordained minister who has faced the worst possible atrocities I think she deserves to be listened to.

I cannot bear to have another discussion on fundamentalism denial - it goes nowhere. I would not wish to contradict this brave woman's use of the word - she probably knows a great deal more than most of us. We can all choose to decide words mean whatever we want, but it does reduce communication somewhat.

She is a brave lady, who has an important point to make. I salute her.

Anya Sat 04-Jul-15 08:31:40

Exactly Lucky

She deserves to be listened to and my heart goes out to her sad

vampirequeen Sat 04-Jul-15 08:49:19

I was responding to Soontobe's post regarding young Muslim men going to live elsewhere if they're not happy in the UK.

The Bible is open to interpretation just as any document that has been translated from it's original language as the translator has to make decisions as to the meaning of certain words and phrases.

Let's not forget the wonderful Living Bible version of Samuel 1:24

24 After Saul’s return from his battle with the Philistines, he was told that David had gone into the wilderness of Engedi; 2 so he took three thousand special troops and went to search for him among the rocks and wild goats of the desert. 3 At the place where the road passes some sheepfolds, Saul went into a cave to go to the bathroom, but as it happened, David and his men were hiding in the cave!

I know the ancients often did things that amaze us but a bathroom in a cave??? My point is thought that if this glaring misinterpretation can happen in the 1970s what others took place over the previous 1970 years?

sunseeker Sat 04-Jul-15 10:20:08

Julie Nicholson was interviewed on local radio yesterday and her honesty was inspiring. She doesn't hate the people responsible for her daughters death but did say that yes she is an ordained minister but she is a mother first. Asked if it made her question her faith she said that there was no time for those sort of questions.

She also told the story of the time she was on the phone to someone saying that she didn't feel there was anything left in her life. Her son was eating breakfast and he just said "you still have me Mum". That was when she realised she had to accept what had happened and start living again for her other children.

Luckygirl Sat 04-Jul-15 10:59:54

I wish had heard the interview sunseeker - she does seem a very interesting person. In the article I read she was making a distinction between blame and responsibility, which is an interesting idea.

Judging by your username you must be very happy at the moment!

trisher Sat 04-Jul-15 11:14:01

I think it is a great statement from anyone but from someone with her history it is remarkable. To dismiss it because of a word you consider wrongly used is crass. I do think that we should look at the attraction of these ideas to young Muslim men. It must be obvious that if they are struggling to find employment and see girls working and progressing the idea that keeping them at home looking after children would help solve the problem must appeal. Most British men have adjusted over the generations to the progress of women, but these are often the first generation to face the problem. Turning the clock back must appeal.

Lilygran Sat 04-Jul-15 11:17:09

Not nitpicking, but I believe she resigned from her position of vicar of a Bristol parish. She felt she could not continue as she could not forgive the terrorists. I think she is a woman of high principles and I feel very, very sad for her.

Luckygirl Sat 04-Jul-15 11:30:49

She did resign and forgiveness seems to have been part of the reason.
"I could....speak words of forgiveness and reconciliation. And then I could go into my house and close the door and know I did not believe them."

She also says: ""[Faith] is something that is woven through me ............ what I rejected absolutely was the easy language of faith that actually just doesn't measure up when times are tough."

I think that is a very profound statement and admire this lady's integrity and honesty.

annsixty Sat 04-Jul-15 19:30:53

I heard an interview she gave on the Radio some years ago when she spoke so movingly of finding out her daughter was among the dead and how the book she was reading on the tube was found where she had been sitting. I believe she was engaged or very close to a young man and Julie spoke of the family's hopes for their future and future children. It was a very emotional interview and I remember it to this day it was so full of a Mother's love. Sorry to go off subject but I felt it all again.