There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

Sorry, Convent!

You can debate the existence of God till the cows come home, but none of us are going to be categorically sure one way or the other until we're dead as there is no convincing proof for or against. A lot of the bible stories in the old and new testaments have perfectly rational explanations, people believed what the wanted to believe, including the Disciples, fitting into the era in which they lived. I was educated in an Anglican Convert, and as a teenager believed fervently in Christ and his saints,but that was before I had experience of the big wide world and the inevitable querying of all I had been led to believe. Now 50 odd years along the line, I'm not sure, not sure at all of the existence of God.

Earthquakes are not brought about by mans free will. Starvation, poverty, war , people sleeping in tents in the mud in Calais and now Dunkirk is brought about by mans free will

What no one seems to address is why some prayers are answered and some not? It seems very random to me.....I would love to really believe, but all I see in the world is a lot of suffering ....children and people dying needlessly.
Free will...but it's not free will to be ill and die in pain is it? It's not free will to have earthquakes.....??

I know I am very late to this thread, but I think it's very difficult not to question God when we hear of tragedies like the one mentioned in the OP.

I've known people, though, who have had the experience of praying for something very hard and having it occur against all odds. In fact, I've had that happen, once or twice, myself. And I'm not talking about garden variety issues but the sudden turn-around in a loved ones health, etc. Maybe it's coincidence, but it seems to me that sometimes He does answer prayers.

But does that mean that He only saves/helps people if somebody asks? Is He indifferent otherwise? I don't know what to think (sigh).

My heart goes out to all of you here who have experienced painful and/or untimely losses, etc...

Don't know if there is a God, how he could stop all injustices and cruelty. I cannot watch the news because of the violence, it is beyond comprehension how people can torture and kill. In a world without suffering, it would be Utopia, no family feuds, violence, bullying in fact it would be Heaven. We live in a real world, that is very hard to come to terms with, some seem desensitised, but the vast majority of the population truly care and I really think goodness triumphs. When bad things have happened to me and those I care for, I have ranted at God but I have also prayed to him. I cannot read about torture and that is the reason I didn't study History more, because violence was an integral part if it, so I certainly care, cannot bear to think of those abused or in pain. I think if there is a God he does care but he gave us free will. When I have been very low, I feel he has listened to me, but what do I know, it is how I feel, deep inside that there is a caring presence.

I am sorry to hear that you suffered these losses trendygran - life can be so very tough. It is all chance and you were not singled out for this in any way. It could have been any of us.

I am sorry to hear that PND treatment is so poor in Wales - I think it is a bit like that in most places. My DD had a very serious Ante-ND and there were times when we did not know if we might lose her, so I have some inkling how frustrating it is when you can see how bad things are but are banging your head against a brick wall trying to get the necessary treatment.

I a glad that there were friends beside you in that sad time.

trendygran. I am sorry for both your losses.
And I think it sounds like your church was very poor in its concern. Can I ask what denomination it was? Though every christian church should have concern for its members very high on its agenda, both as a church body, and as individuals.

On a personal level, I dont think that we can expect to be shielded from hardships, to a great degree more than non Christians.

I am always mindful of the parable of the sower. Especially the thorns part. Where cares of the world can choke out the word.
If you have any faith left, hold on to it is my advice.

trendygran, I am so sorry to learn of your great sadnesses but what do you think God should have done ? I am not bring unkind or indifferent to your grief I assure you

I share your feelings lefthanded.I also grew up in a religious household with a father and grandfather both lay preachers.
Since losing my DH very suddenly at 66 and younger DD 16 months later at 33, leaving 2 young daughters, (PND treatment VERY BAD in Wales ) . I have lost my faith totally in a 'GOOD ' God.
I also found out who my true friends were and the 2 who helped me most are both atheists! With the exception of one , very religious, couple the concern from the church I no longer attend was practically non existent! Says it all to me !

Luckygirl, I did not speak of 'last hours ' . Some choose to believe in eternal damnation , it's their choice

So - feeling ghastly in your last hours is the definition of hell? I am not familiar with that definition. I think that most religions see it as something more concrete and eternal.

Thank you feetlebaum, so he was in hell

We know that he was a sick man, kept heavily medicated by his rather evil doctor... also that he was manifesting Parkinson's (?) with a tremor in his left arm. He refused to understand that the troops he was issuing orders to were no longer available to carry the out - in other words he was manoeuvring imaginary armies... Whoever's side you were on, that must have been a nightmare time...

Hitler took his own life, do we know, and I mean know not guess , what was his state of mind those last days of his life.

Indeed so - but wouldn't it be nice to think that Hitler had got his comeuppance?!

Once dead they won't know anything will they... they'll be... dead.

We shouldn't blame God for what man at his most cruel, does
to man (small children) as happened/happening in Syria and Libya,
as heart rending and vile as it is.

Whatever the religion, I believe all dictators such as the North Korean despot will receive all - they so richly deserve, once dead.

Iam, that must have been horrific

Neither could I Anniebach, I've had the misfortune to listen to children describe their experiences in that dark world.

Yes Iam, it does take all sorts and so I respect almost all faiths and non faith .

I cannot respect faith in the dark side of an occult , human sacrifice etc

Yes Anniebach, that's the key, 'people have and do believe'.

It doesn't matter whether they believe in Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha or the Greek Gods, or take a humanist/agnostic/athiest approach to their lives. The key is that people need to believe in something.

I've read about the so called "god gene' which exists in people who have faith and not in those who don't have religious faith. I believe it's part of humanity to believe in something. One of my children is a Pagan, one believes in living a good life and another has recently returned to Christianity. It takes all sorts doesn't it. Thankfully

I accept that Luckygirl, but people have and do believe , this too is a fact.

But it is hard for many to understand how people can base a lifetime of belief on things that might have been said or might not.

So if nobody knows what be said or did. Nobody can say - well no, be didn't say that