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Religion/spirituality

There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

(613 Posts)
jinglbellsfrocks Wed 21-Oct-15 09:46:47

Early this morning, on the World Service, I heard the voice of a six year old boy crying out to the doctors treating him, "Don't let me die! Don't bury me!". The doctors, trying to reassure him, laughed and said, "You're not going to die".

It was in the Yemen. The little boy had just seen a three year old, put into the ground. He was wounded himself shortly afterwards.

He died. The doctors were unable to save him.

If you have heard that young voice on a video on the internet, you will agree with me.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 24-Oct-15 09:36:33

This thread is descending to the depths that only Gransnet can conjure up.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 24-Oct-15 09:34:47

soontobe that is very true. smile

feetlebaum Sat 24-Oct-15 08:59:24

@soontobe - I don't. As it is there are no known original documents at all for a couple of centuries, then those that have been discovered are only fragments, full of scribal editing - an example being the introduction into Josephus' of a blatantly forged paragraph about Jesus. Scribes saw no reason why they shouldn't add their own comments as they copied documents, and it was quite usual to put the name of a famous author on your copy, as a selling point.

The bible scholar Bart Ehrman has written some very interesting books on the subject - Misquoting Jesus is one, and there are many more (he's a prolific writer).

Iam64 Sat 24-Oct-15 08:48:37

There appears to be quite a lot of research evidence that people of faith suffer less depression and other illnesses as well as being, well happy smile
I'd like to stress imo those who follow fundamentalist faiths can't possibly fit into that research

Anniebach Sat 24-Oct-15 08:44:37

I agree with you soon and will add joy

Anniebach Sat 24-Oct-15 08:41:55

Really Wilma, you are saying there is no place in your life for the people who use the name of God for ill deeds and thoughts, all you have listed are the works of man

WilmaKnickersfit Sat 24-Oct-15 01:31:11

Granny23 for what it's worth I agree wholeheartedly with your last post.

Brought up Roman Catholic, I stayed faithful to the Church until I was about 21. I had gradually become disillusioned, believed less and less in the teachings of the Church. When my Father died about 20 years later, I made the choice to arrange for him to receive the Last Rites and a Catholic burial, but I know I was hedging my bets and doing it just in case God is real. When I visit my Mum, I accompany her to church because I know it pleases her, yet I pray when I am there just in case God is listening. The rest of the time I just try to live my life as best I can, being kind and as compassionate as I can, but never giving God a thought. I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated. That is my version of being Christian, being Christ like.

There's no place in my life for the God to be worshipped blindly, the God who is used to control the lives of millions, the God believers use to excuse the suffering of humanity, the God in whose name people make war. The God who is used to justify the abuse of power. No place at all.

soontobe Sat 24-Oct-15 00:32:48

feetlebaum. How do you know that all documents have been found? They seem to be finding bits all the time.

soontobe Sat 24-Oct-15 00:30:30

Have you ever pondered what benefits religion bestows on god-fearing people. No one on this thread has been able to articulate any tangible benefit

Comfort,guidance, inner peace, strength, love. Probably a whole lot more, and not necessarily in that order.

annodomini Fri 23-Oct-15 23:35:12

I have stated my position on religion several times over the last few years and am not going to do it again, you'll be pleased to know, jingl.

Anniebach Fri 23-Oct-15 23:04:38

Just posters opinions on God or no God , nothing new has been added to the age old - yes there is / no there isn't .

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 23-Oct-15 22:53:06

I wonder if they'd delete this thread if I asked them. Probably not. sad

feetlebaum Fri 23-Oct-15 22:52:22

Oh thank Gawd - it isn't just me then...

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 23-Oct-15 22:50:51

And I haven't got a clue what anyone's talking about anymore.

Anniebach Fri 23-Oct-15 21:23:32

I don't believe in eternal damnation and I do not follow the teachings of Christ in the hope of being accepted into glory. Neither do I struggling to reconcile my upbringing with my belief .

rosequartz Fri 23-Oct-15 21:11:23

and any sin, minor misdemeanour, or big crime committed is punishable by penalties ranging from fines to eternal damnation

I do think we have to have the rule of law though, otherwise society would be anarchic and chaotic.
Whether the law of the country or God's law is a moot point.
Perhaps the thought of eternal damnation keeps some people from sinning - or breaking the law.
But often people hide behind a veneer of respectability and religion to commit horrendous sins.

Granny23 Fri 23-Oct-15 20:54:45

You could waste a whole life trying to understand these infinite mysteries. and therein lies the great pity of it all. So many good, kind, caring people pondering the imponderable, carrying huge burdens of guilt, calling themselves sinners. So many of mankind's greatest brains devoted to interpreting & reinterpreting the 'sacred' writings. So many families, communities and countries torn apart because of small differences in doctrine.

Have you ever pondered what benefits religion bestows on god-fearing people. No one on this thread has been able to articulate any tangible benefit. Now ponder if there might be benefits that accrue to unscrupulous, greedy, self serving people who set themselves above the ordinary people - our rulers, tyrants, global conglomerates, warmongers and the like - in promoting the idea of a supreme being - he/she who must be obeyed - who is omnipresent, whose dictates permeate every aspect of life, who is promoted in state schools. Then add this GOD into the mix e.g God, Queen & Country, and any sin, minor misdemeanour, or big crime committed is punishable by penalties ranging from fines to eternal damnation, the latter even if the sin or crime has not been detected. That's the stick - the carrot is the promise of pie in the sky when you die.

Thankfully, in the West the majority of people have begun to think for themselves, to question the status quo, to conclude there is no God (or none worth following) or simply to be totally disinterested in the whole concept but willing to sing the odd hymn at a wedding or funeral. In the Middle East currently we have a modern manifestation of this powerful mix of control by state/dictatorship allied with religion.

Sorry this is so long and heavy but contrary to the views expressed in many of the posts on this thread I do not usually give much thought to matters religious other than to note their political impact on world events. I do not even have a label (agnostic, atheist, whatever) as I do not classify myself this way, nor an ethos other than the basic 'do as little harm and as much good as you can.' But the thread caught my attention and I felt the urge to put my thoughts down. I do not intend to contradict, argue, upset anyone - each to their own - but it pains me to see good people struggling to reconcile their upbringing v current beliefs/lack of belief.

rosesarered Fri 23-Oct-15 19:50:51

And there endeth the lesson.........or not?

feetlebaum Fri 23-Oct-15 19:09:52

@Elegran - "and there is also "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone".

That story doesn't appear until the fourth century - it's just not there in the earlier documents.

Jings - brainwashing? Not entirely sure I would ascribe anything to that - indoctrination, yes...

rosequartz Fri 23-Oct-15 18:49:57

Go and have your dinner and watch the box
Yes, good idea, anything else is making my head hurt

I'll go and join Michael P on the train smile

Luckygirl Fri 23-Oct-15 18:27:06

I think that is where I am coming from too. You could waste a whole life trying to understand these infinite mysteries.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 23-Oct-15 18:26:37

soon I'm feeling guilty about the thread title. I wish it would go away now. (Feetle would say that has to do with brain-washing)

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 23-Oct-15 18:24:37

Infinity is best not thought about. IMO.

Go and have your dinner and watch the box.

rosequartz Fri 23-Oct-15 18:22:18

Infinity is a difficult (impossible!) concept to grasp too.

For ever and ever, world without end
Amen

Does that mean infinity?

Luckygirl Fri 23-Oct-15 18:16:38

And, having postulated this god, many religions represent it in human terms, attributing to it personality traits - indeed soon says he has many aspects to his personality - that is a sort of anthropomorphism, and is clearly nonsense. If a being capable of creating this world does exist, it is likely to be something far outwith our human frame.