There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

It is interesting that each person (and many on here) sees god in a different way (vengeful, loving, egalitarian, hierarchical etc.); and indeed, as feetlebaum points out, it is not just the one god that people worship - there are many cited within various world religions.

It reinforces my feeling that god is a human construct to try and explain the unexplainable. We all feel a sense of awe and wonder at the world and its creatures, and as mere humans want to find some explanation - so we postulate the existence of a creator - that does not mean there is/was one, but simply that we feel more comfortable having some explanation. True or not, it does not matter, as people continue to turn themselves inside out trying to credit this god with love, charity, fatherliness etc., because that is at we would prefer. But there is no evidence that this is so.

The world is a wonder - but it is not benign. The whole way in which the food chain is constructed, based on dominance, suffering and slaughter, is a perverse decision, and I do not feel thankful for that. Organisms are set up to kill or be killed, and we as humans are no different, with millions of species of bacteria and viruses just waiting to carry us off.

It makes no sense to single out the lovely things (the smell of a rose maybe) to attribute to god, whilst ignoring the inherent evils in creation.

Some of DH's ancestors were missionaries.
They did do their best in difficult circumstances.
However, trying to convince someone who has their own firm beliefs that they are wrong is a bit, what's the word, presumptuous? that you are right and that they are wrong.

Those who have not heard of Christianity will be told before they are judged at the end.

Well, it's a bit late then, isn't it?

Anniebach, that is a big ask!
I will try tomorrow.

jing, I am not sure what you feel guilty about? If it is bringing up a difficult subject, God does not expect us to keep silent in matters that are difficult.

To all those all feel they only have a scrap of faith left, keep hold of it tightly. Very tightly indeed.

Totally agree about people having reserved or higher places or whatever.

I may have said before that I think that atheists are much more likely to become Christians than those who have nothing to do with Christianity at all. My heart is glad when someone says that they are an aetheist!

feetlebaum. Those who have not heard of Christianity will be told before they are judged at the end.

soon, why not post what you judge as overlooked

And is God supposed to have given man free will?

God isn't supposed to have a personality. He isn't a human being.
He just is - if indeed he is at all.

I havent got time to go over all these recent posts in full.
But I keep seeing the phrase "loving God".
Yes, he obviously is that, but in the Bible as a whole, he has all sorts of other parts to his personality as well.
And these seem to get overlooked both by non Christians and Christians.

Anniebach Thanks.

But they do really Elegran , just look at services held in Westminster Abbey

My point on those seats is sime seem unable to shake off those years of fear of divine intervention

Why do people not listen to Christ, so much love . The two shortests verses in the bible are 'Jesus Wept. and 'God Is Love'

We seem to have turned from all those years of fear of a God who watched our every move and blew a fuse if we did even a teeny wrong act to wanting to control God and tell him to jump when we say jump

He did, AB and there is also "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone"

The Lord of the Manor and his family don't sit in that high pew any more, though, do they? They don't have the right to appoint the priest of their choice, either.

Yes Elegran, and Christ told them they were hypocrites did he not ?

Sorry rosequartz, forgot, yes pride is listed as one of the deadly sins .

I get frustrated because generation after generation of uneducated people were controlled by fear and this has left scars . Go into village churches and see in many how some pews are set higher in the nave than than most , so the lord of the manor and his family, who often was so immoral sat, grrrrrr

The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: 'I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else. For I don't cheat, I don't sin, and I don't commit adultery. I'm certainly not like that tax collector!
I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income."

Yes, G23 came across one of the less appealing representatives. Some varieties of Christianity (and other religions) rule by guilt. Controlling every natural thought and every cry of despair by saying that railing against your fate is condemning your soul to everlasting hell is still control, even (especially?) if it is done in the name of a loving God. We have had a few posts of that description on the forum, which even soontobe rejected.

I would put that attitude in the same box as parents who rule their children with ""Mummy won't love you any more if you do that" which I have heard in a supermarket.

Luckily it is not the standard response. Most are caring generous-hearted people.

It is not that aspect that causes many to turn away, though. What alienates me most is the adherence to the Bible stories as literal truth, and the keeping up of practices with no purpose except perpetuating obedience. It would be impossible for me to go along with the 7-day creation myth, for instance. The rocks of earth - supposedly laid down by God in a day - were layered over millenia, and evidence of any life at all is only in recent strata, and of man in ones that were almost yesterday. If God really did make them in one day, why on earth would he disguise them so that they appeared to be aeons old?

And so on.

rosequartz , atheists here are only quoting negative teachings given by Christians . Jo Bloggs said etc so I stopped believing in God. Is it an easy way out?

Some moving posts on here with much food for thought.

I mentioned original sin because that is what I was taught in confirmation classes and I believe some christians still believe in it today.

anniebach Perhaps atheists and agnostics think a lot about what Christians believe in because they want to examine each concept and either discard it with logical thought and explanation, or think long and hard about whether or not it is true or that something could be feasible.

I can't believe that anyone is truly good and perfect. Even Jesus recognised that he was not.
Isn't pride one of the deadly sins transforming God's angel Lucifer into Satan?
However I am sure that most people strive to overcome their shortcomings to become the best person they can be.

Others do give in to their baser instincts, sometimes due to circumstances in their upbringing over which they have no control.
However, research is examining the theory that some people have a genetic predisposition to criminal behaviour.

Jingle , cast aside that guilt , why should you hold guilt for expressing love for a child and anger for his suffering . I share these emotions but I don't feel guilt , Christ had no problem in expressing his views on those hurt children did he? If he can you and I certainly can.

I envy you your sure-ness ab.

It's sodding guilt anniebach.

Jingle - a case of take care what you wish for, you may get it ?

True rosequartz . The words from the cross are so powerful , Christ felt forsaken at one stage but this passed

Granny23, you are deciding who should live and who should die . You believed in a god who awarded gold stars which gave protection from accidents and death. There is no promise in Christs teachings which could have given you this belief . The deaths of the two you speak of were so tragic, but all accidents are tragedies .

Should I have turned from God when my two babies died at birth yet other babies who were unwanted lived . Or because my husband died far too young trying to stop drug dealers whilst corrupt police officers go into retirement ? Was I angry? Yes, did I blame God for not giving me gold stars to protect me ? No. I am not special in his eyes, not favoured , but I am loved by him and he did see me through dark days and nights because he didn't rescue his son from the cross did he ? He didn't give Mary gold stars , she watched her son die a horrific death , had he done wrong?

I wish this thread would go away. I hate it now.