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Religion/spirituality

There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

(613 Posts)
jinglbellsfrocks Wed 21-Oct-15 09:46:47

Early this morning, on the World Service, I heard the voice of a six year old boy crying out to the doctors treating him, "Don't let me die! Don't bury me!". The doctors, trying to reassure him, laughed and said, "You're not going to die".

It was in the Yemen. The little boy had just seen a three year old, put into the ground. He was wounded himself shortly afterwards.

He died. The doctors were unable to save him.

If you have heard that young voice on a video on the internet, you will agree with me.

Riverwalk Wed 21-Oct-15 18:44:42

Ana you can nit-pick my words but I was really seeking a philosophical answer as to how a god who made the earth, which would be a fantastic thing to do, has no control over such disasters.

It seems that believers don't blame god for anything bad that happens in the world, but sing his praises for good events.

Luckygirl Wed 21-Oct-15 18:41:27

Earthquakes, tsunamis, viruses, volcano eruptions, bacteria, predation - all natural, all grim from humanity's point of view, and not our fault. Part of the design of the world - what might the "designer" have had in mind I wonder?

It is very hard to imagine a LOVING god watching these children suffer and deciding not to use his/her/its omnipotence to intervene. What a puzzle.

Ana Wed 21-Oct-15 18:37:34

Well you did say

I'm genuinely curious as to how believers can love and worship a god who sends such destruction.

Perhaps those who believe in God don't believe he 'sends' natural disasters, that's all. They just are what they are - natural disasters. Not all believers blame God for everything that happens in the world.

Riverwalk Wed 21-Oct-15 18:33:58

Any more takers on the earthquake question?

The reason I ask this is, there is surely no greater natural catastrophe that can hit communities ..... and they were documented long before nuclear experiments, space travel, global warming, or any other man-made interference with the elements that it could possibly be blamed on.

Riverwalk Wed 21-Oct-15 18:22:38

I certainly don't think , God gets bored so sends an earthquake to brighten his day

Did anyone suggest such a silly thing? confused

Luckygirl Wed 21-Oct-15 18:10:28

We can have free choice with or without a god, or a loving god as the questioner has posed.

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 21-Oct-15 18:09:34

But a loving God could look kindly on terrified children and find a way to help them. That's all.

Leticia Wed 21-Oct-15 18:05:22

If you were wanting God to control everything it would do away with any free choice.
There is also 'where do you draw the line'? It makes it all black and white whereas there are lots of shades of grey.
How do you save someone from a disease when a cure hasn't been discovered? If you say the disease shouldn't be there does that mean that people's lifestyle doesn't have consequences? Does God not allow a person to be an alcoholic and destroy their liver or does he just magic away the consequences?
If someone decides to do extreme skiing does God make sure that life isn't at risk? Or is it OK if someone dies because they were a racing car driver but not if they were crossing a road when the green man was showing?
I could go on and on. It opens more questions than it would answer.
I prefer free choice, with all the flaws.

Anniebach Wed 21-Oct-15 17:57:08

I certainly don't think , God gets bored so sends an earthquake to brighten his day

Anniebach Wed 21-Oct-15 17:54:58

I will give an answer to earthquakes etc, - I don't know , but my knowledge of movements around continents is nil sorry

Ana Wed 21-Oct-15 17:39:31

Who's to say he 'sent' it though? Presumably if God created the universe, including the earth, the planets, stars etc. he designed them to all have their own natural but unpredictable climates and eco-structure and just let 'em get on with it...we have to cope as best we can!

Riverwalk Wed 21-Oct-15 17:30:34

Grey the OP did refer to a man-made victim but that was answered with the usual men have free will and so it's not god's fault, which I fully understand and agree with; but then I went on to ask about earthquakes, which certainly can't be blamed on man.

I'm genuinely curious as to how believers can love and worship a god who sends such destruction.

Greyduster Wed 21-Oct-15 17:11:32

I may have misconstrued this, but I thought that the original poster was questioning why a loving God could not intervene to save a child who was a victim of war, not a natural disaster.

whitewave Wed 21-Oct-15 17:07:37

I'm with the minority of grans - I am an athiest

Riverwalk Wed 21-Oct-15 17:05:11

Grey I assume that the majority of GN believers are of one of the three major faiths in this country, so they all believe in one god who is said to be benevolent.

This is what some of us are questioning, i.e. if their god is benevolent why do terrible, NON MAN-MADE/NATURAL DISASTERS, happen?

(Caps for effect, so no-one comes up with, free will and all that.)

Luckygirl Wed 21-Oct-15 16:56:20

Nor me.

Greyduster Wed 21-Oct-15 16:55:10

Aren't we kind of letting the concept of "God" run away with us? We are talking about Christian God. What about all the other faiths that have more than one god, and civilisations down through history and pre-history, who have believed in their own gods, which seem no more than totemic to us. Good and bad things (some of them very bad indeed) happened to them. Perhaps 'our' God is totemic. I have been known to offer up a silent prayer without knowing to whom or what, but this idea of a divine being who could intervene to stop bad things happening but who sits there with his arms folded while people are being burnt at the stake for the sake of their faith doesn't sit well with me.

Riverwalk Wed 21-Oct-15 16:53:34

Lucky I try not to associate believers with oppression, mutilation, hatred, etc., as I think they're cultural constructs which are associated with those of religious faith, and those with none.

I'm more interested in the nitty-gritty ....... like the pesky earthquakes which I hope someone of faith will answer!

Luckygirl Wed 21-Oct-15 16:47:13

Chopping off hands, flogging, executions........

Luckygirl Wed 21-Oct-15 16:46:49

And I have respect for others' beliefs up to a point - or several points really: fundamentalism, child mutilation (either sex), suppression of women, hatred of gays...........

Luckygirl Wed 21-Oct-15 16:39:29

I am not an atheist, I am an agnostic - which means I do not know - just like every other human being. None of us know.

Anniebach Wed 21-Oct-15 16:05:33

Doubt you will have cause soon, how can you believe God has favourites , he said - you are honoured in my eyes and I love you. He did not say Jo Blogs you are honoured in my eyes and I love you,

Riverwalk Wed 21-Oct-15 16:02:43

Annie I understand the father and the teaching bit and the following of a map ..... but, and I ask this is all niceness and without hostility, why would a god send earthquakes?

As Jings said, you believe he made this earth, so he's extremely well-placed to control it.

soontobe Wed 21-Oct-15 15:58:48

I will tell you everytime I agree with you on this thread if you want Anniebach. smile

soontobe Wed 21-Oct-15 15:56:23

As I probably said before, I disagree with Anniebach about no one being favoured by God.

Luckygirl, we dont tell God off when things go badly[I dont], because everything is up to him.

I dont know why he created us jingl. I probably should know, so I will have a think.