There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

soon, you tend to be rather fire and brimstone

Luckygirl, he believes it was ordained just for him , doesn't mean it's true .

And those drugs may have a good purpose but are used by man for ill purpose

My point in the question is quite simply God is a father, he can teach, warn but like all parents accepts free will

If someone gave you a map for a journey and you chose to rip it up thrn got lost, who is at fault, the one who gives the map or you for ignoring it?

I cannot say anything to turn an atheist into a Christian, I do respect and understand they are atheists . I am not comfortable with teachings which dish out fear , soon takes the Old Testament word for word, I do not yet we are both Christians , I have yet to find anything we agree on and I am sure it's the same for her

Sometimes you are very wide of the mark regarding Christianity. We would all be going to hell with that criteria.

God tests Christians. God doesnt test non Christians because the tests he gives Christians are to do with how how they cope faith wise. Non Christinas dont have it so it cant be tested.

Luckygirl, of course I am not telling her she is going to hell!!!
If someone does one thing that God does probably doesnt agree with, they dont automatically go to hell!!

"If you warn your child of the horrors of drug taking but they ignore you are you a bad mother ?"

No. But it would not have been me who created a world in which such drugs exist, nor created human physiology to be liable to addiction - all-powerful is the crux of the thing.

But annie some people believe that they are. I remember hearing a survivor of the tsunami say that god had sent the tsunami to test his faith - so, all those people die just so god can check out the state of one person's faith. I fully understand that this poor man needed to try and understand the impossible, but that sort of personal god assumption seriously gives me the creeps.

No one is favoured by God , if some wish to think they are then they free to do so as those who do not believe in God are free do do so.

I believe in God but I am not favoured by God , and I do rant at him when I am hurting but I firmly believe in - Why me ? Why not you ?

I know what you mean Jingl, it's hard to understand, even illness, which ends the life of small children, although natural, is very hard to take.We can be doubtful, but ultimately do not know if a loving God is there or not.

Ah riverwalk that is because they are so very special and favoured by god.

I too am puzzled by the habit of thanking god when things go well, but not giving him/her/it hell when things go badly

Still with earthquakes/natural disasters (as anything else can be blamed on mankind) I'm always struck when believers who've escaped some terrible disaster that's killed thousands, thank god for their deliverance!

I did say a loving God.

we simply can't say flatly that there is no God, as we do not know.

Why did he create us? Is it a hobby?

It would be nice if soon could answer my questions too.

So, is this God of yours (*Annieback*) completely powerless? You reckon he made the earth and all that's in it, but can't enter man's minds, and have influence there? What is the point of him then?

jingle - I am with you on this, and feel for you in a situation where once you believed in a loving god and now no longer feel able to. That is not a comfortable place to be.

God is a human construct to try and explain the conundrums presented by this world. Religious people regard god as being all-powerful and loving. God cannot be both. It is as simple as that.

The forces (some religion-related) that have created this situation are impossible for us to change in any way at all. Offering money and old clothes that we do not want is a pathetic response, and until these forces change then nothing will improve and these children and their families will continue to be bombed and to drown.

I compiled a page of organisations currently involved in helping refugees for my local parish mag, but knew that it was too little and virtually pointless.

Personally I feel ashamed to be a European when I look at the mess our governments are making of tackling this situation.

soon - your post to jingl. "A Bible warning. About not leading people away from God. I think your subject heading and op may do that.
I think you need to be careful in that regard." That is offensive in the extreme - are you telling her she will go to hell? If that is what you mean then shame on you, shame indeed.

Humans are obviously responsible for Aberfan, Yemen, Syria, modern-day famines, but who was responsible for the earthquake that caused the Boxing Day Tsunami?

For me, the answer would be no-one as it's out of our control, but for those who believe in an all-powerful god, why was it allowed to happen and kill thousands of already impoverished people?

49 years ago today I stood in a road called Moy Road, I was brought up in that street, went to school in that street, for me it was the safest , most wonderful place in the world until 21st October 1966, I stood with family and friends and waited as fathers , Grandfathers, uncles, brothers, cousins , friends dug out the dead bodies of 144 children from their school ,

It should not have happened, there had been flooding when my father was a pupil in the twenties, when I was a pupil in the forties and fifties, months before the local newspaper printed a photograph of the headmistress handing in a petition warning of the dangers , it was ignored .

My fathers closest friend went to work that morning, in minutes his wife and two sons were dead,his home demolished . At the inquest he demanded the cause of the deaths be entered as killed by the N.C.B, he was ordered to leave the building .

Who did let those children and 28 adults die? And destroy my village, God or man who knew the dangers but did nothing ?

Correction: I meant to say 'about a God they don't believe in'.

Riverwalk, I said that 'I'm not going to sit at home and blame God.

jingl - I echo your frustration and sadness, that's why I wrote as I did. I'm sorry you found it hurtful, but I know I can do more and my questions were to those who do little or nothing - and also a challenge to myself.

I'm sure many on GN will already be doing as much as they feel they can, but here are some more ideas:

small ways to help refugees

migrant offshore aid

host a refugee

foster an unaccompanied minor

Nonnie , I often speak out against the assumption that all women are Mother Earth , so you are not alone

I am with anniebach on this one. you simply cannot say There Is No Loving God.Fact. first of all, because we cannot prove that fact to be either right or wrong.second, that if you believe there is a God but he must remain hidden( if he was there for all to see, it would be a whole different ball game!) then he could not step in to avert any tragedy or disaster.

But it would be Eden Jingle. No one would be greedy, have an unkind thought even , drug companies wouldn't want to make millions but would give their drugs freely to heal illness in the third world. This government's foreign secretary would not have said of the refugees in Calais, if we take them in it would lower our standard of living

If you warn your child of the horrors of drug taking but they ignore you are you a bad mother ?

Thanks Annie I feel rather like a one woman campaign to change attitudes!

My issue is not with an imaginary god, but with the belief in an afterlife. Without this silly belief, we might all behave a bit better, knowing this life is all we have. It would be pretty hard to recruit suicide bombers for a start.

I think people are good or bad regardless of religion, and atheists are just as likely to help people and do good works as believers - some would argue more so.

How on earth religious belief persists in the wake of all the horrors perpetuated in the name of deities is beyond me.

No, it's not enough to say it's all down to mankind. Either God exists and he can enter the minds of man, or he doesn't exist and he can't. And after hearing that this morning, and hearing about the children drowning, I am pretty sure he does not exist.

"Jingle, if he exists you think we would be living in Eden? "

That's plain stupid.