There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

jingle You made the original post and Joan said the issue you had raised - i.e. the existence/non-existence of god - was "so damn boring". So, if the thread has gone "off piste" it is because she raised the situation in the Middle East.

nigglyneillie You say "I feel that anyone should be able to voice their opinion and in return get a reasonable, thoughtful and respectful answer".

I believe Joan's first contribution to the original post relating to the existence or not of god, was:

The question of whether there is a god is just so damn boring. Some people have need of an imaginary god friend, others like me have a scientific world view that ignores superstition and the supernatural.

As I have stated on many occasions, I'm not at all religious but I would suggest that such a dismissive response hardly represents a "thoughtful and respectful answer".

She then went on to say:

In the Middle East people seem to revel in ethnic and religious hatreds and then refers to our civilised industrial nations ...

As anniebach pointed out, our "civilized industrial nations" were responsible for shipping orphaned and disadvantaged children off to Australia to be used as servants (or worse); creating and sustaining apartheid in South Africa and a form of apartheid ("the colour bar") in the US.

Just because you have been to Australia nigglynellie and have relations there does not guarantee that you are any more knowledgeable than me or anyone else about Australia. Many of the white people who visited South Africa or emigrated there during the period of apartheid thought it was a wonderful country - because that was their personal experience and it suited them not to look any deeper.

The below link is from the Human Rights Law Centre and demonstrates that apologies without reparation and a commitment to equal access to health, clean water, modern sewage systems, education, etc., is meaningless.

www.hrlrc.org.au/files/fact-sheet-indigenous-rights.doc

You would be wrong, but not racist!

If you don't understand that the people of the Middle East are as diverse and varied as any other part of the world and comprise people of every and no faiths then you won't see it as racism. Racism involves seeing only stereotypes and not appreciating the diversity. But then some people never realise when a racist remark is made. If I was to say all Europeans had problems with alcohol you would rightly tell me I was wrong, but apparently it is OK to say all people in the Middle East hold grudges and have feuds for years.

Why don't you start your own threads to have your stupid arguments on?

This is not what this thread was supposed to be about. and

My young Grandson is 8 and at times he does seem like several children!! He can talk for England (or Australia!!) I adore him, but he can be wearing!!
From the little anyone talked to Joan, she sounded anything but racist. A caring concerned person, well aware of her adopted country's history, keen to help redress wrongs past and present and not deserving of the reception she received on this thread.

Did she treat all the races and religions of the Middle East unfairly by saying that we should not interfere (which is what I thought she was saying)?
How exactly has she treated someone unfairly and how is it racism?

You don't have to answer.

Telling someone they are best gone because they have a different viewpoint and reading something into their post that was not intended is just plain rude - or was it racist because she is Australian?
(which is just as daft a statement.)

No I am not saying anyone is a right-wing Australian. Just used them as an example because they were already part of the discussion.
Summing up the Middle East as Joan did is racism:-
Racism is treating someone unfairly simply because they belong to a different race or culture.

probably!

ie a group of several children used to be about 6 or 7 children when I was young, but now I am several decades older a 'group' of two children is feels like 'several'. And three is 'very many'.

I would agree, several hundred years has to be at least four, two hundred odd years, like the U.S. is a new country!

If two hundred years are not several hundred years but four hundred years are several hundred years, what's three hundred years , nearly several hundred years ?

just to nitpick, I would say it had to be at least four hundred to be several
Although I would admit that looking after two children can feel like looking after several -especially at my age--

I consider over two hundred years to be several hundred years, but I am not into nit picking .

Actually, Joan only mentioned, in passing that she lived in a quiet, largely godless, peaceful area of Australia; other than that, Australia wasn't actually up for discussion until others chose to make it so, and started beligerantly to bring up things they clearly knew little or nothing about. Joan rather naturally backed off and left the thread! There's nothing racist about saying that middle east might have been better if us clever clogs in the west had left it alone, or should do so now, it's an opinion anyone is entitled to express, others don't have to agree, but surely can air their views without sneering insults? Surely a more tolerant discussion should be possible enabling a more balanced view of a very dreadful situation that is the Middle East, instead of just banging on about a country you clearly have little knowledge of, forcing one of its citizens into a defensive position! How rude and arrogant is that!!

"There is simply no way to deal with such people and they are best left alone" is verging on racial abuse.

You see, I don't read it as that, trisher, and I have heard a lot of people express the view that we should never meddle in the Middle East; I don't think that is a racist view, rather it is pragmatic and quite honestly, we make more mess when we do meddle as can be seen today.
However, read into it what you will, that is my view of what Joan meant, but you may look at it with different pre-conceived notions.

How would anyone feel if the same thing was said about right wing Australians?
Are you saying that certain posters are right wing Australians trisher?

Ah, I see where the confusion arose anniebach:
so would you like the rest of us to leave anniebach?
I meant, from your name I assume your ancestry is original British - just saying that a lot of us may be descended from 'invaders' and 'colonisers' - and refugees in the country of the ancient Celts.

I said she was probably best leaving. IMO her statement-"There is simply no way to deal with such people and they are best left alone" is verging on racial abuse. How would anyone feel if the same thing was said about right wing Australians?

I didn't say that it was you who asked Joan to go anniebach I know it was another poster.

I didn't praise white Australians (did you misread my post?), and it hasn't taken several hundred years for an apology as Australia wasn't colonised until 1788.
It is not just white Australians who are working towards better education and integration, there are many Aboriginal leaders, politicians, assembly members, mayors etc who are all doing the same, together with people whose ancestors may be from many countries as so many Australians are not of British extraction and in fact are not all white.

Joan may have brought Australia into the discussion but other posters ran with it too.

Jamila, I have not asked or said anyone should go. As for your praise of the white Australians, hardly a major effort , it's taken several hundred years and they managed an apology a few years ago, I do agree though, they certainly haven't got it right yet . And just a reminder, it was Joan who brought Australia into this discussion

Anyone who makes statements about the Middle East such as Joan has is probably better gone.
For what it's worth I believe that Joan is as entitled to her opinions as anyone on here without being told to go; because some people disagree with her ideas on the Middle East does not necessarily make them wrong, they are her views. People express some very extreme views on GN without being told to go!!
And it astounds me that people who are not Australian, have probably never visited there, know all about the problems there. But, then again, par for the course.
One poster who had lived in the Middle East and knew of its problems was villified on another thread if I remember, by righteous posters with their rhetoric and holier-than-thou attitudes. What a pity if a poster giving us a view-point from the other side of the world has been driven away by nastiness.

It was truly horrifying that in this day and age in a wealthy country like Australia its original inhabitants should be so badly treated I, for one, would disagree with that statement.
The Australians haven't yet got it right regarding the social problems with the Aboriginal people, but they are trying very hard. Yes, it may have taken years for an apology to be forthcoming from Rudd, but at least there was one. Many Aboriginal people are fully integrated into society but there is still a long way to go. The benefits system, skewed in favour of the Aboriginal people, has not always had a beneficial effect and there are many, many people trying to educate and integrate the younger generation after their parents and grandparents have been lost to drink, among them many retired educators and medical experts who give of their time willingly and freely.

And let us not forget - it is their country, well taken to its logical conclusion, this country should belong to the original British peoples, so would you like the rest of us to leave anniebach? Including those of us whose ancestors were refugees?

The Middle East has been a hot-bed of tension for millennia, extremely tragic and sad as it was the cradle of civilisation and did give the world so much - including the religions which are being used as an excuse for so much war and terror today.
Joan is right when she says that there is no comparison between the Middle East and Australia.

This thread has moved a long way from the original post. It seems to be all about egos now. . #Gransnet

Sorry Nellie, have things to do, you find someone else to niggle at , enjoy

OH you meant you ab, I thought you were referring to the OP! my mistake! But I have nothing to apologise to you for. The only reason the conversation was turned into a pop against Australia is because Joan came from there, nothing to do with the OP or the conversation at hand. Imo, unprovoked criticism of someone else's country to the point of telling them that they are in no position to have an opinion because of where they live is unacceptable. Doubting comments that his person made about her own country/countrymen is just offensive, so, I think it is you who should be apologising to Joan ab, if she's foolish enough to be reading any of this. I haven't insulted anyone, so no apology from me!

And are you using the royal'we'?