A thread to debate the existence or otherwise of the Christian God

I have been reading this thread and the other one, and pondering the comments and my own thoughts. My yoga teacher has again come to the rescue - tonight she ended our class with this little poem and I felt it to be a message to me……...

Faith vs. Doubt.........

Doubt sees the obstacles.
Faith sees the way.
Doubt sees the darkest night.
Faith sees the day.
Doubt dreads to take a step.
Faith soars on high.
Doubt questions ' who believes '?
Faith answers ' I '.

(april 2009)
fawzia zie

Surely to a true Christian there are no 'unpleasant people'.

There are of course people who hold different views and even views which those of a Christian faith may find abhorrent, but it can't be that hard to at least be polite when confronted with opinions which oppose one's own.

I cannot speak for any other Christian, for me I know I fail so often, being 'nicey ! ' can be difficult to unpleasant people, I try to follow the teachings of Christ but I am aware I have a struggle with - turning the other cheek .

@WilmaKnickersfit - What actually are the 'teachings of Jesus'? We have no actual record to tell us. Most people seem to have vague ideas of being nice, of being philanthropic perhaps, of being pacifistic, of being good.
Whatever that amounts to...

@Rosequartz - I was merely trying to put things into perspective! That is exactly where the Abrahamic religions were created, and by just such populations as I mentioned.

So interesting to read your experiences TrishF and AnnieBach. I think being brought up as a practising Christian helped shaped my personality, along with my parents who were a bit strict (that's not a criticism). Kindness and compassion to other people were drummed into us, often using guilt but it stuck with me and I like to think they helped me in my career and life in general. I do think there are many people who call themselves Christian who don't seem very Christian like to me.

It was my Mum who took us to church. She never let us miss going unless we were ill (no fooling her either). We had to walk quite a way and I know now there was no spare money for bus fares. My Dad, a former altar boy, only went to christenings, weddings and funerals. On a Friday night when I was little he used to tell us he was going to church when he was going to the pub and we believed him for years! The priest used to drink in the same pub and could knock them back!

I think you can live your life following many of the teachings of Jesus Christ without being religious.

It depends on what you mean by 'kindly'.

Sadly, that is not a term that can be used for a lot of people who hid behind a cloak of Christianity.

Did Ken really give Audrey a five pound tip then?!

I don't give that much.

]

Oh yes, so it is - time to watch Audrey pretending to be a hairdresser! [grin

The point I was trying to get across was that not all Christians, at all times, are 'kindly'. Especially when other issues close to their hearts are at being discussed.

Thank God it's time for Corrie.

Ok. I meant it is probably a necessary feature of being a Christian to come across as being kindly.

Oh, never mind.

Ana you always get me wrong.

Never mind.

What's wrong with 'kindly'? Mind you, it doesn't seem to be much in evidence on some other threads...

I wonder if it is a necessity of being a Christian to sometimes come across as being a little bit kindly.

I was a child of the Manse, my g Grandfather built the baptist church, uncles , g uncles and one g aunt were deacons , my parents were baptists. My father a lay preacher in the baptist church, I was fortunate that family friends included the Rabbi from the local Jewish community, the priest from the Anglican Church, the pastor from the Methodist church . Religion wasn't drummed into me. In my early teens I chose to be baptised in the Anglican Church, I was allowed to choose my godparents so a baptist godmother and R C godfather , took a lot of paper work by the priest ! I was allowed to question , to disagree , two of my siblings became agnostic , no problem in our family. For some years I have also worshipped with Quakers, I attend a Buddist retreat house too. One thing I was taught was to respect people of faith - no matter their church - and people of no faith , tolerance was so important

I was born into a C of E family, and was taken to church by my Granny, who we lived with at the time. I just accepted that God was there, and there's a certain code of behaviour we should adhere to.
In my teens and early 20s I started looking at other religions, just from curiosity, and I worked in a psychiatric hospital for a while where there were many Jews, and I became interested in Judaism.
I had always questioned the relevance of JC.
Then much later married a Jew and converted to Judaism.
We all have our own attitude to religion, I think it depends a lot on the personality we're born with, what type suits us.

I would question just how many posters who believe in God actually ^ chose^ their religion. As a lapsed Catholic, I know I didn't choose to be a Catholic. I was baptised by my Catholic parents, sent to Catholic schools and attended Catholic churches. At no point was I given a choice, but I never thought about it either.

In fact, one of my boyfriends was a Baptist and I went to his church sometimes. I was confused though, because on one hand it was so much less formal which I liked, but on the other hand it didn't feel holy enough. As a young adult I believed any other church wasn't good enough, only the Catholic Church was the real thing.

The Aristotle/Jesuit belief Give Me the Child Until He is Seven, and I Will Show You the Man holds true for millions.

As an adult I began to be curious about other faiths and realised how ignorant I was about this and what a huge gap there had been in my education.

What about others who believe in God? How did you come to your faith?

Don't know why I am still posting on the other thread when this one is more relevant to the current discussion on it. Didn't see this one until now. Numpty.

In other words why would you pick out the beliefs of one obscure goat-herding sect of a couple of millennia ago, and what led you to make that choice?

Well, that sounds mocking to me so I agree with anniebach when she thinks it is mockery.
It is the way the question is phrased rather than the question itself which, in essence, is 'why would you choose Christianity as the faith you choose to follow rather than one of the many other faiths of the world?' which may have elicited an answer worthy of the question.

The trouble with using personal experiences as proof, Soon, is that they're subjective. Even if others have had similar.
Scientific proof needs to be objective, ie in a form that others can see/hear/ feel.

Having googled, there are supposed to be 2.2 billion christians right now.
Personally, I would think that that is rather an overestimate, but you sort of get the picture.
When, as a Christian, you come across many others, even in just your own sphere and contact who have had similar exoeriences, never mind the other countries in the world,, it becomes not just a small number having similar experiences.

"Does a lot of subjective truths, many, add up to the truth" - not really soon - what do you mean by "the truth" - just what you believe in? - or someone else's interptretation of a similar experience.

I am not talking about when there are groups of christians together.
I am talking about when christians get individual personal experienvces, and tell others about them years later. And they have some similarites to what you and others have experienced.