God and war

soontobe. None of us can really know until it happens. IS think that what they are doing in Syria will hasten the advent of the Messiah. There are so many interpretations of scripture which is why there are lots of different churches. I seem to remember a verse about Jesus returning like a 'Thief in the Night'. Other verses refer to a new name, and a new Jerusalem, and that 'every eye will see Him'. Well most of the Jews saw or at least were aware of Jesus when he came the first time but seeing is not the same as recognition. This is why we must also 'watch and pray'. I think a humble attitude is needed, and it is better not to have too many preconceptions. 'Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth'. Peace to all.

Unfortunately, that is far from how the Messiah comes.

According to prophesy, there will be an end to wars after the 'return' of Christ (other major religions also believe this). Some thought this was going to happen in the middle of the 19th century and sold all their belongings to be ready for Him. In Haifa there are some houses where the German Templars settled to be ready for the return. Now you can either sit and wait for some sort of Messiah to float down on a cloud, wave a magic wand and create peace on earth overnight, (with lambs playing with lions etc) or we can try to stop wars by looking at the causes and doing something about them. We are no longer a tribe wandering in the dessert looking for a 'Promised Land', thanks to the Internet we are a global society, and we need to bring equality of opportunity for education, development, wealth etc to every corner of the earth, and get rid of the Obscene gap between the rich and the poor. I am sure this is what God is waiting for us to do.

Sorry, Soon, I thought on page 1 you were saying that someone was following Jesus but not following God, hence the confusion.

Luckygirl, I am sure armies believe God is on their side, always have done , I don't believe it, I don't know but having discussed it, read views , given it thought I don' t believe it . Not sure if I have said before,if so then forgive me. I was brought up in the Manse, was so use to people of all faiths sharing meals with us. A lovely Rabbi told me a story , not scripture, when the Jews fled from Egypt and the Red Sea covered the Egyptians the angels rejoiced then saw God was crying , they asked why and God said - my children are drowning .

This is how I think of Gods love

soon, I was speaking of what is called the final judgement . An arms dealer could tell me he is sorry he made his billions by selling arms which are made purely to kill or maim, I would have to choose if I thought it was true or not. But God knows , did he not say - before you were in your mothers womb I knew you. He knows not only what we did and why we did it but what made us what we are, from the cradle

I expected that the response would be that god does not take sides. However in a religiously-motivated war each side believes that god is on their side. No question about that.

I am sure that christians among the allies in the second world war did not believe that god was supporting the Nazis!

Jayh. No you cant follow Christ without following God.

You can however follow God without following Christ, as this is what the Jews do.

Anniebach. Post 18.29pm yesterday. Are you meaning they are trying to say sorry to God? Or to people?

IeurMami, it was just fun, well I am not going to Heaven, can't speak French,

Perhaps there is a Welsh quarter there

What is the difference between following Christ and following God. Can you follow Christ without following God? I don't understand. ?

another reply to Anniebach, you are absolutely right about the candle in the darkness (good analogy): and there are Christians in Syria right now, who could have fled but are staying out of compassion for others who had no choice but to stay. (The elderly, infirm, or just too poor.) One church has become a refugee camp and some churches - of the few that are left - are helping everyone, both Christian and Muslim, with food, blankets, shelter. One charity I absolutely trust with my money is Open Doors, one of the few NGOs who were in Syria before the war and are still working there. www.opendoorsuk.org/churches/index.php?ref=story2

Anniebach, that comment is so silly. I know you are directing it at American policy rather than the people. Anyway, we will speak French in heaven.

Ethel,what is the point of giving free will, sending his son to teach us how god wants us to live our lives then step in . In the west we assume God is on our side, no, he isn't on sides

He knows the full picture we do not

If there is a god then he should stop the wars and create peace or help humans to find a way to make peace. If god is a woman there would be no killing I am sure

God does 'do' sides, but don't tell the Americans , they think God is American

Well, I would think he would be against evil. Don't you think that's what IS are?

I wonder whose side god is on this time.

Glad you wrote that post.

I am still formulating a response to the 2 posts before that.

Was hesitant about writing this because of being ridiculed yet again , but no, I want to tell you

As some know I was at a vigil last night where we prayed for those who will suffer from more bombing and my candle stayed lit even in the wind

Went to bed and was crying at the thought of the fear ,pain and death children will endure , felt bit cross with God. Put radio on , radio started to crackle, a kettle on my bedside table was on fire, smoke coming out of it yet it was half full of water. Electrics fused, no light, radio, telephone, internet etc, batteries in torch flat, no signal on mobile phone. Couldn't fix the fuse by touch , walked back through living room , well groped back, on my desk was the vigil candle alight. So in all that darkness there was the candle .

In the darkness we are inflicting on the people in Syria and in this country by bombing Syria I know God will be in there with them .

I was pleased to see there is a place for threads about "religion/spirituality" on Gransnet - after all, at our time of life, we should have worked out what we believe - but why does the topic arouse such aggression? Even from some who claim to be Christians...But the idea that there will be less wars is, I'm afraid, unbiblical. The Middle East is heading toward the ultimate war, Armageddon (no, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, though I defend their right to their beliefs!). It is in the Bible. Israel will be surrounded by its enemies (sound familiar?), and they will attack. Just the fact of Israel's existence as a state, whatever you think of them politically, is a sign that God's timetable is going forward. Yes, he could zap all the evil in the world, but he gave us free will and we have consistently used it to make wrong choices. I said to a neighbour recently, "if God just 'zapped' IS he would have to zap all of us." No-one is good, not one.. but Jesus was, and is, and every single one of us needs Him, because there is "salvation in no other name". Call me dogmatic if you like, that's what the Bible says.

I have no idea where soon stands in her faith

For me forgiveness can only be given if repentance is genuine . Arms dealers for example , they know their massive wealth comes from selling arms which will kill and maim, how can they say at the end of their lives - I am sorry I made my wealth by selling guns and bombs , I did it without thinking of the consequences , or, I did it on the spur of the moment , that isn't repentance it's trying to get off the hook

Going back to God allowing wars, if you believe in the promise of eternal life, then what happens in this life does not really matter compared to what happens when you die. What is 70, or however many years you live, compared to Eternity?
If you then take a long view of life on Earth (and maybe other planets) from the moment it was created, it has moved forward in many ways, as has humanity, but we still have a long way to go. We generally only learn lessons by experiment and making mistakes. If there were no wars, we would not appreciate peace, or understand what is needed to help maintain it. We need to want it, and like a family that go for counselling because they want to stay together, countries need to want to stop wars and turn to other means of solving disputes. As has been pointed out, we were created with free will, and many people (arms manufacturers for example) do not want peace because they profit from war.
If you believe in an eternal life, where your sins are forgiven and there is only happiness (as described by some who have had near death experiences say), then that still allows for a loving deity being in control.

I always forget that bit, Elegran and Anniebach. I stand corrected.

soon, the Jews did not and do not say Jesus did not come, they acknowledge he did, they do not acknowledge him as the Messiah and so are still waiting for the Messiah, like Muslims they accept Christ as a prophet but not the son of God

They believe that Jesus was there, soon, they don't say that he never came. He was a historical character.

I have just ordered a book called "Who is the "Kosher Jesus"? How the Criteria of Historical Jesus Research Can Tell Us Who Jesus Wasn't" which should be interesting on the subject of the relationship between Jesus and his fellow-Jews.