From the Humanist Association - discuss

I've addressed this question already Anniebach.

Again, from the British Humanist association FaceBook page, which I follow:

QUOTE:

'BHA Campaigns Manager Richy Thompson commented, ‘The fact that one denomination of one church retains the unique right for 26 of its bishops to sit and vote on matters in the House of Lords is unfair, unjustified, and unpopular – even 70 percent of Christians are against it. Just this week the Church of England has published new figures showing that weekly attendance continues to fall, now representing just 1.5% of the population as a whole – and for the first time ever, fewer people attend church each week than children attend Anglican worship each day in state-funded Church of England schools.

‘The UK is the only democracy to reserve seats in its legislature for religious leaders, and this is an anachronism that must change.’

So it seems the figures quotes in the OP and the initial statement I quoted in the OP, were published by the C of E.

Thats what I do Anniebach at WI, I stand out of respect for other's beliefs, but I do not sing Jerusalem or the National Anthem. As for being a godparent, I am godparent to a young man who I have not seen since he was a baby, his parents do not attend church, neither do I, but they wanted the big fancy christening in the local Cathedral. Such hypocrisy.

granjura, I didn't give an opinion on CofE bishops in the lords. I am a member of the Church in Wales , Anglican but disestablished years ago , doesn't trouble me that a bish sits in the lords, we have party donors giving a title to get their bum on the seats , I trust the bishops before the party donors

All it takes Gill57, tolerance and respect . I have five godchildren and two I took on who were godchildren of my husband, they were small when he died , eldest of mine is now nearly fifty, I still keep track of her and she and the others know I am always willing to support them , I was sad some didn't get confirmed but this was their choice so I respected it

Anniebach Your comment "Why should children of faith be taught by atheists?" doesn't sound particularly tolerant and respectful to me.

Indeed- and I was surprised by that comment by AnnieB. It makes atheists sound like they would be terrible teachers and people.

About standing quietly and respectfully- as said in an earlier post- I do that regularly without any problem. But in a Government position- it is very different. Again, as stated before, in a multicultural area in particular, should we not then begin the meeting with a Sikh, Muslim, Jain, Buddist, Jewish, Humanist, Atheist and anarchist prayer/contribution then? I totally understand the concept of tradition and history- but the OP stated figures, from the CofE- which show that despite those- the number is now so small, that giving a special status and time, does not longer make sense. Same for automatic seats in Lords (and I agree with you totally about party givers btw).

It makes total sense to me that you should be a God Parent AnnieB- as a practising Christian and believer- my point is about those who agree to be a GP who are neither believers nor practising- and therefore should not make the promises as per the link I provided from CofE and RC. And totally agree too that you can support the children and their faith and search, but that you cannot 'make' them believe-just guide them along the way to their own decision, in your faith, best you can- and I am sure you did your very best.

Well done Justin Welby for your apology to gay and lesbian Christians today.

Eloethan, I was asking a question, if some do not want children taught by people of faith then I ask why should children be taught by atheists, my children and grandchildren have been taught by both, I had no objection to either

Neither do I AnnieB- just depends if either try to influence (endoctrinate?) the children, or 'just' teach them in the best, most respectful way- without pushing their beliefs on them, whatever they are.

I know many brilliant Christian teachers of so many different Christian Churches who have done and do, teach really well- children from all ethnicities and religious or secular backgrounds. Sadly I have also come across some really bad examples of non-tolerance for those who are not Christian- quite shocking some of them.

Like the Methodist Minister who used to come and do assemblies at one of the schools I taught at. On a very important Hindu festival, with a good % of pupils being Hindu- he spent the whole Assembly talking about Leveticus and other on the subject of idolatry (“You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the LORD your God.) - knowing full well that all those children would go home and be expected to do just that, as part of their religion- that very day. I still regret not having trhe guts to tackle him on that and make a complaint. Respect goes all ways, not just the one.

annibach Who has said that they wouldn't want their children being taught by people with a religious belief?

But this is what I am saying granjura, it must be two way . When I read children should be taught in the home this troubles me, a child should be allowed to challenge, ask questions , they cannot if they are restricted to only what their parents believe ,i was so fortunate at a time when children didn't question to be allowed to question, I allowed my daughters to question, I allowed them to attend the annual pagan festival here when in Spring a very old well surround by beautiful trees is decorated , ribbons tied to the trees etc, we celebrated Diwali with Hindu friends, my elder granddaughters first 'date' was with a boy in the sixth who was a son of a Gurkha army officer, she learned of his faith, I took them to meet and talk to friends at the Buddhist retreat I some times visit. We chose to have our babies baptised, I allowed them to decide if they wished to be confirmed , got questioned by the dean as to why they were not presented for confirmation age eleven, they both chose to be confirmed when they were fourteen . My elder granddaughter after deciding she would be a buddist/Hindu /pagan / Christian, is at this time an atheist , at nineteen she may now remain so , it is her choice, her calling, to narrow it to the home is wrong in my opinion.

It was the parting of the Red Sea that did it for her

I did have a panic when younger granddaughter visited a medium , she explained as she is going to be a criminal profiler ! She wanted to see if she could spot cold reading !

Eleothan, my world extends outside of this forum m I asked a question, I did not accuse

Anniebach I think it is hard for someone to teach a faith they do not believe. Could you teach a child to be Jewish? You can teach children about being Jewish but only someone who is a believer of a faith is in a position to really give spiritual guidance in a particular faith.

State schools do teach about faith systems/customs etc but I do not believe schools should be giving spiritual guidance to children. That is the place of a church, synagogue, mosque etc etc.

When and where I grew up, children who wanted, or rather whose parents wanted- to learn about the family faith- would have lessons after school. Again, where I grew up it was either RC or Protestant- but I had a few friends who were Jehovah's Witnesses, 2 Mormons and a few that belonged to evangelical sects. That way we all got the same education in school- irrespective of Faith- and no-one was excluded. It's not that difficult, is it?

So Cameron was wrong to claim this was a Christian country, not a country with similar practices as Christians ?

If a faith should be taught in the home or church then atheists parents should have no problem in telling their child anything they are told regarding the Christian faith is a load of rubbish

In all honesty I truly believe this country needs to find it's lost faith

I accept atheists do not want their children to attend a faith school , I as a Christian want to keep faith schools

In which case,, and I respect that, they should be totally separate and not Government funded. And normal, ordinary, village schools/community should not be faith schools- as children of different faiths or none are excluded and 'forced' to take it all in (as my GS says, it is very awkward!)- or parents forced to drive those children for miles, away from their friends, community, etc- which is WRONG.

And so, in a multicultural society, we shall have children in Jewish schools, some in RC schools, some in Muslim Schools, some in Hindu schools, and some in ...... ad infernitum- secluded and in ghettos. That should help ;)

Perhaps more difficult to understand this if you live in a traditional rural area- but can you see how divisive that is, in towns. Look at NI and also Glasgow, just with RC and CofE segregation- so in our multicultural cities?!?

Can we truly say to other Faiths that they can't have FAith schools if we insist on keeping ours- at the end of the day. is that what we want, segregation and ghettos?

Not a lot of C of E in Glasgow, the Anglican communion in Scotland is the Scottish Episcopal Church.
Did you mean Presbyterian?
In my experience, (other than some RC primary schools and even they are fewer than in my childhood) Scottish schools have little if any link with a particular denomination.

If you have to drive your child miles to avoid them attending a faith school and are concerned you are seperating them from their friends you want that school closed , what of the families who want their children to attend the faith school? They must submit to your will? Their children must attended a secular school because your child wants to attend school with friends ? It works both ways , and it was the church which started up schools before the givernment

anniebach Did your children make those choices as a result of what they were taught at a faith school? A one-faith school? Did the believing teachers go out of their way not to tell them that the one they (the teachers) followed was the best one and the others were mistaken at best and wicked if wrong? If so, then it was a good school, but many faith schools don't do that.

When it is a C of E school or a Catholic school or a Muslim School, then that is the dominant denomination or faith. If a school teaches promotes the same faith as the parents of the children who attend, they have no-one to question about other faiths. If it doesn't even tell them what other faiths are about, then they can grow up ignorant of how many good people there are who don't believe exactly the same things as, say, the nuns or the imams.

A secular school doesn't teach that religion is wrong, it just doesn't concentrate on one. It teaches the facts about different religions - what each believes, what their festivals and traditions are about, without saying that "We" believe or do this or that.

If the school teaches what each faith believes and the differences between one and another, a child who is doubtful which one is for them can choose which one interests them and go on to find out more and a child who has never heard of them can learn more about them all.

If a child can be taught of faith in their home instead of in a faith school, so can the child of an atheist be taught faith is a load of lies in their own home

This would appear to be the current situation in Scotland.

We would be against changing the present pluralist, comprehensive, non-denominational school system and, to that extent, we would be against secularist schools in the same way we would not be asking for Church of Scotland schools"
This quote is from the Convener of the Church of Scotland's Education Committee.

I would never ever teach my children that the religion/s of their friends and their extended family (and there are many faiths involved, mainly Christian denominations which have a very different take on some things) - is/are a load of lies. What sort of respect would that be- do you teach your children that other Faiths are 'a load of lies' or that those who are no religious are evil? Are sincerely hope you do not, truly. I am quite shocked at those words coming from you.

So it is only atheists you object to, anniebach ? I think your real wish is that Christianity should be promoted in all schools to all children, , but if that is done, then so should all religions have equal time in all schools to go in and promote their versions too.

Equal time for all the different denominations of Christianity, plus the Sunni and Shiite versions of Islam, plus Judaism, Buddhism, Baha'i, and Hindus, Rastafarians, Sikhs, then Wicca and Druidry would fuill uop the school day - there'd be no time for anything else!