From the Humanist Association - discuss

Ah yes, sorry, should have added Church of Wales, Church of Scotland- to my long list (may I know what the real difference is between CofE and of Wales- is it really important? = even more confusing and divisive)?

The Church in Wales is not established, unlike the Church of England.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Church_Act_1914

CofE is the Anglican Church in England, .cofWales is the Anglican Church in Wales, we have our own Arch Bish and our own synod

Yes it is important Granjura to Anglicans

Thank you for reasoned commonsense, Luckygirl
I am very happy with DGS's C of E school as indeed I was when our own DDs went to a (nominally) Cof E school in our village up to the age of 8 when they moved from the village school to Middle School in the neighbouring town. I should add all their friends in the village went to the same school and I saw no evidence of indoctrination. Quality of education, a caring stimulating learning environment and a healthy outlook on life were what appealed to us as parents and it turned out happy, well adjusted children ready for the next stage in their education.
I am becoming uncomfortable with the alarmist prophesies of doom, of ghettos, of the threat of "faith" schools for every piddling denomination or religion and by what I am finding an increasingly "anti-religion" flavour to some arguments on this thread.

Why is are the divisions in the Anglican Church still important today. More division, more segregation? A pity.

Piddling Alea- not very respectful that, is it? But this is exactly what is happening now, schools and academies for all kind of religions- Muslim, Jewish, Creationists, and of course the classical CofE (+Wales, Scotland with their own versions- which seems to matter- thank goodness here where I live we have a strong ecumenical movement to get rid of this divisive nonsense between Christians) - are you denying that this is happening all over? As long as we insist on holding on to traditional faith schools, then proliferation of all sorts of other faith schools will ensue.

That is not being anti-religion- but anti division and segregation.

Perhaps you ought to read the OP again, Alea. It's an anti-religion thread, I thought. Obviously must be wrong.

Segregation in the Anglican Church? What rubbish, you may enjoy attacking people's faith but do not lie please

There is no segregation, as an Anglican I am part of the world wide communion , how can there be segregation if it's world wide?

Well, Anniebach, without intending to inflame things, the Anglican Communion has barred the US branch from decision making for allowing same-sex marriage. The expectation is that the Scottish Episcopal Church is soon to follow the American example. A bit of a schism there, perhaps?

That is not segregation annodomini , all countries have to be respected, Africa as well as America, the American Anglican Church carried out same sex marriages before the worldwide communion had reached a decision

Unless one is a Christian it isn't possible to understand, I accept this

There are 44 different Anglican Churches across the world- and they certainly do not agree on some things. Ask Anglican Churches in Africa how thex feel on homosexuality and same sex mariage, perhaps.

Now I would not have made that distinction, but as you corrected me fro mentioning the CofE, when you meant the CofW- then ...

Did you meant to say this thread is 'anti-religion' DJ? or is that a typo. This thread is definitely NOT anti-religion, and making a case for not having religious schools. A very different proposition, surely.

Alea I don't think anyone on this thread thinks that "atheism" should be taught in schools. They are merely saying that, so far as religion is concerned, education should be neutral. Like you, I commend Luckygirl for her common sense, but but she seems to be saying that as well:

"The problem with faith schools is that they favour one faith over all the others that they are teaching. A non-aligned school does not (or should not) do that. They are religion-neutral and world religions are taught in the same way as history or geography for instance."

This is taken from the BBC website from 2006 and refers in particular to Blackburn in Lancashire:

"Pupils from St Bede's - 99% white - meet pupils from Beardwood High - 95% non white.

A group from St Wilfrid's Church of England High - 91% white - sit across a table from a row of Asian faces from Pleckgate.

" "I don't see faith schools as being divisive at all," says St Wilfrid's Anglican chaplain, the Reverend David Dickinson.

" "We provide an option. We have had the debate with the government about one size fits all and our society values choice."

"But Blackburn's director of children's services, Peter Morgan, suggests there are real concerns about the impact of parents choosing faith schools.

" "It is going to make our work in terms of building bridges between these communities and these young people more challenging," he says.

"This year, Blackburn's Education Authority welcomed a new secondary school into the fold: the Tauheedul Islam Girls School.

"Among primaries, 27 school names feature a Christian saint - from St Aidan, St Alba and St Andrew, via St Cuthbert, St Edward and St Gabriel to St Silas, St Stephen and St Thomas.

"Ted Cantle, who advised government on what lessons might be learned from the race riots in Oldham, Bradford and Burnley in 2001, says segregation of schools along racial or religious lines is dangerous.

" "It is not just Blackburn," he says. "The problems of segregated schools can be found in towns and cities across the country."

Where is there segregation in the worldwide communion Eleogran?

You do not have to be anti-religion to be anti-faith schools.

Sorry I meant Granjura

I agree luckygirl, but you have to be anti religion to launch some of the attacks in this thread , I agree with Alea on this

There are actually:

Number of Christian Denominations:

According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity (CSGC) at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, there are approximately 41,000 Christian denominations and organizations in the world.

This statistic takes into consideration cultural distinctions of denominations in different countries, so there is overlapping of many denominations.
Center for the Study of Global Christianity (2011)

That is an awful lot of division, just amon Christians. Do Anglicans consider themselves 'a better sort of Christian than other Christians'?

I wouldn't think of answering for all Christians Granjura , again I have no expect ion that you could understand this

Secularisation is not anti-religion. Individual teachers in secular schools would not be stripped of their religion and made to deride it. No-one wouild be burnt at the stake or pilloried for their religion, children and staff of all shades of belief would be equal. They could discuss the differences in their faiths in RE classes (or whatever the latest name is)

No-one is going to say "It is all a pack of lies" No-one is going to say, either, that evolution is a pack of lies.

Children and staff are all equal now, can you say you know no teacher would tell a child the child's beliefs are untrue ? I do mean know not assume

I know it only as well as you know that no teacher of one faith or denomination would tell a child of another faith or denomination that what they believed was untrue. No more and no less likely.

The British Humanist Association has expressed concern that Ofsted inspectors are barred from specifically inspecting denominational RE or Collective Worship in ‘faith’ schools. Rather, ‘faith’ schools appoint their own inspectors in these areas, and some inspectors have extensive links to the schools they were inspecting.

humanism.org.uk/2015/09/01/bha-calls-on-ofsted-to-start-inspecting-re-in-faith-schools/

"Good quality RE is essential if schools are to produce open-minded and tolerant citizens"

"In addition to the conflict of interests in the inspection of state-funded ‘faith’ schools, concerns were also raised in the submission about the private school system. While Ofsted currently inspects around half of all such schools, the other half is inspected by an independent inspectorate appointed by the school. The BHA has previously expressed doubts about the impartiality of one such body, the Bridge Schools Inspectorate (BSI), who were formerly responsible for inspecting schools from the Christian Schools Trust (CST) network or the Association of Muslim Schools (AMS). Whilst the BSI was forced to close earlier this year following allegations that their inspectors had extensive links to the schools they were inspecting, similar concerns still exist around the School Inspection Service (SIS). Despite having been founded by the Focus Learning Trust (FLT), a group of schools that teach in line with the beliefs of the strict Exclusive Brethren Christian group, the SIS is responsible for inspecting all FLT’s schools, as well as Steiner schools, about which the BHA also has concerns, particularly in relation to the teaching of pseudoscience.

On that point, the BHA’s submission also expressed concern at the fact that neither Ofsted’s inspection framework, nor the Inspectors’ Handbook, addresses the teaching of pseudoscience in schools. On a number of occasions in the past, the BHA has identified pseudoscientific or creationist teaching in schools only to discover that a recent Ofsted inspection had failed to also identify such issues. This was the case, for instance, with Yesodey Hatorah Senior Girls’ School in Hackney, which was rated ‘good’ by Ofsted in 2014 despite ‘blacking out’ GCSE science exam questions where they contradicted the schools beliefs in areas such as creation and sex education."

That is an awful lot of division, just among Christians. Do Anglicans consider themselves 'a better sort of Christian than other Christians'?

I am finding elements in this thread unnecessarily aggressive, certainly anti-Anglican if not anti-religion.
It seems to have moved on from the sentiments of the original article quoted about the disestablishment of the Church in England to an all out disproportionate rubbishing of those who have a genuinely held belief (and Anniebach is at the receiving end of much of this aggression)

I would not dignify the question asked with any answer other than 'No' .
Time to move on.
If the desired result of OP was to push the argument to a point where individuals have to justify their adherence to a denomination that is unacceptable.
I am amazed that with such entrenched anti-Anglican views any person would have wished to see children or grandchildren attend a school espousing the principles of the Church of England.
Anyway as the Dragons say, "I'm out".

I'm catching up with this thread again. I've several times started a post only to delete it in order to avoid the kind of hand bagging I feel Anniebach is being subjected to by some comments.

My position is simple, I'd prefer faith schools not to exist. I don't like extremes of any kind and fear the separation that comes with some Muslim or Creationist schools. My grandsons went to a CofE primary, where 80% of pupils were from the Muslim Pakistani community. That's the reality on so many northern former mill towns at primary and high schools whether they be non denominational, CofE, RC. Where Muslim schools are being established there are few, if any, white British children or children who are not practicing Muslims. That's separation folks.

I empathise with Anniebach whose comments I haven't found inflammatory or one sided. I share the views in Alea's post above in seeing some of the comments here as being anti religion and certainly dismissive of the Anglican Church. Yes, there are divisions in the Anglican Church as there are in most families.