Are you an ex Christian?

After all the hot air of yesterday, I find it strange that the thread has apparently dropped off the bottom of my "Active" page

Sadly, I would say rape is universal. granjura, rather than 'very common in many countries'. How far it is tolerated or accepted seems to be culturally determined. Major undertaking, changing culture.

I so agree Absent and Alea

"Denomination" not " do nomination" silly iPad

Good point Absent, I think your faith or not has to come from inside and not be dictated by the trappings.
Early Reformers such as Luther (and I am NOT talking about the C of E as that is not a Reformed church) abhorred the corrupt practices of the Catholic Church at the time as. They didn't lose their faith, they changed the Church. Similarly with the followers of Zwingli, Calvin, Knox.
So are the practices of some priests of whatever do nomination which have had many column inches here a reason for being an ex-Christian?
It does not follow we stop "believing" in education because of paedophile teachers however small the minority. Or in medicine because a few abused their position of trust.

I am an ex-Christian not because of the church's covering up of abusive priests or because of the great wealth accumulated by the Church of England and the Church of Rome or because of the pervasive and antedeluvian patriarchal attitudes towards women – all of which I abhor. I am an ex-Christian because I simply cannot believe in God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the BVM, angels, cherubim, seraphim, Satan, Beelzebub, et al, heaven, hell, the events described in the Bible or the concept of an afterlife. At times in my life I did believe and at other times I tried hard to believe. For a long time now, I haven't – and don't – believe in any of what seem to me patently man-made characters and tales.

Stoned to death? This is proving very difficult to follow Granjura, what has this to do with your posts on priests impregnating girls and locking them away whilst excommunicating their parents - which was incorrect . I agree with Alea, child abusers are in every profession and would add the majority are within the home .

Seems we are straying just a tiny bit from the original premise?

From "being an ex-Christian " to women being stoned "for adultery" when in fact they had been raped involves quite a leap of imagination journey.
In no way mitigating the appalling consequences of attitudes especially of the Catholic Church towards unmarried mothers ( but frankly, society in general in the 50's and 60's) we should not forget that other trusted professionals, doctors and teachers among them(the Cambridge oncologist recently in the news springs to mind) , have also been convicted of horrific child sex abuse, if that is the way the discussion is moving.

Thank you Atqui. There were no mention of such cases in Calll the Midiwfe- but this thread has described the appalling attitudes people had towards single mothers- and then a friend posted on my FB re the statement made about rape- which triggered my comment. This is of course as rape is still very common in many countries- and where women can be stoned to death for having been raped.

granjuras posts seem to be quite calm to me . She has just raised some distressing issues

TriciaF and the poor souls stayed in there, sometimes for life!

In the days when it was shameful for an unmarried girl to have a baby some were sent so-called "mental institutions" but most were pregnant from a boyfriend . It's shocking to us now, but that was the social norm at one time. I was told this by a psychiatrist I used to work with.
I met one of those mothers once when I had a vacation job working in a hospital for slow-learning people - she was a lively one! Not very slow either.
Calm down granjura!

'goodness knows'

I am sure there were some, but most of the girls would have been made pregnant by a boyfriend and their ashamed parents sent them to the mother and baby homes run by the nuns. The nuns were sometimes impregnated by the priests, goodness what happened to the little mites they gave birth to.

I didn't hear any mention of a priest impregnating a girl in Call The
Midwife. Parents put daughters in mother and baby homes , you do seem to have a personal problem with priests, everyone accepts the child abuse and cover ups but you have taken this to priests impregnating girls and having them locked away , if you want to believe it carry on

Did children work in coamines and clean chimneys in the 50s? We are not talking about the Victorians here, but our parents, and for some, our generation (not me, I was just post war)- as seen and discussed in Call the Midwife.

AGain, I don't think you are reading my posts openly. I am not talking about one or two priests making a terrible mistake- but the how they were protected by the RC Church, how the girls we demonized and turned into psychiatric units and workhouses, and the babies taken from them and at times worse. Not talking about the experience of one poor girl, in one poor place- but the near systematic abuse and protection- But you know that, I am sure.

For a sincere and good catholic, being shunned by the Priest and the Church was as good as being ex-communicated- and the shame would stay with them forever. But you know that too, I am sure.

I am not defending anyone or anything, I did receive instruction in the R C church, you can be excommunicated for heresy, lack of respect for the sacrament such as tossing the bread to the floor, having an abortion and hitting the Pope , it was some way through the instruction that I decided it wasn't for me and I wasn't for them, I continued working in the convent

Parents were not excommunicated or threatened with it, in fact a person who is excommunicated is still expected to attend mass, they cannot take the sacrament though. So not cut off from the church .

Apart from child abuse what happened was of it's time, as was children working in coal mines or cleaning chimneys

You are condemning thousands of priests for the act of one , are all doctors like Harold shipman?

My experience of the R C church stretches further than claims made by one family

Parents would be threatened with being cut off from the Church and shamed-unless they went with it- which for them amounted to the same as being ex-communicated. Same for my father who married a divorced Protestant who had a child. The threats were real, and so was the shame and hurt.

Why are you defending this? You have said yourself you are Cof W- how much experience do you have from the RC Church?

Accusing a young woman of being mad for having got pregnant by a Priest, be it rape or abuse or 'just' because she was seduced by a person in a Senior position, was commonplace- to protect the Church, and the Priest just moved on to another Parish. I am very calm indeed, but please do not deny what you don't know, if you don't know. It is very well publicised nowadays.

Granjura, everyone accepts there was a child abuse, unmarried mothers etc, and no, parents were not excommunicated if their daughter was pregnant . You seem unable to discuss this in a calm way

Perhaps read about the Magdalene Launderies (workhouses) in Ireland too.

Oh Annie- just Google 'girls who got pregnant by Priest' and there are umpteen links to this. You must have heard about those tragic cases in Ireland- and those dreadful institutions (and the cess pools full of dead bodies).

And yes, I do, one of my mother's friends. The RC Church got involved and she was taken to a mental institution, the equivalent of being sectioned nowadays, with the approval of her parents. She was considered a temptress and sinner who had trapped the Priest (and that was NOT the case- but even so, a Priest should know to walk away)- and the baby taken from her for adoption. The girl was never seen again.

Please do not deny that this happened regularly, and the Chruch, together with the families due to the shame, this being insisted upon by the Church- any support for the girl would have condemned them to be also ex-communicated. Please, don't.

Granjura, with respect you are making wild accusations, do you personally know a priest who sexually abused a girl and then condemned her to an institution? And girls put into those places to have their babies were sent there by their families ,their mothers and fathers, grandparents etc.

Any, did you read my last post and place my comment in context? I think that would help. There was no law, nor a choice, for those girls. We are talking about then, not now. Talking about the attitude of the RC Church towards girls who have been abused, often by the very Priests who would then condemn them to insitutions. Context is the key. You are not a Catholic though, are you?