Are you an ex Christian?

I wasn't referring to subtle views , I was referring to quoting things which were not even written

It is not faith which causes divisions, it is mocking a faith one doesn't share, understand , have little knowledge of

Those without faith are far quicker to judge and condemn than those with faith , in my opinion and experience

And if any man sues you at the law and takes away your shirt ,let him have your coat also.

Gospel of Matthew ch 5 v 40. King James bible

Just joined gransnet recently & just joined this thread,I understand where ATQUI is coming from. I was brought up as a Baptist going to Sunday school &chapel every week with all the beliefs that went with. It inadvertently taught me to question everything & now as an adult, I have found more kindness open mindedness & compassion within the non religious /christian fraternity.( Sorry if I've jumped the flow of conversation )

I have found kindness and compassion in both because all are human

Yes very true Annibach, I suppose what I really meant is that those qualities exposed by believers is sometimes very sadly lacking & therefore more disappointing .

Sorry Annie but I do think that it is the faiths themselves that cause division. They deal in fundamentals and many religious people feel that their "truths" are not open to debate and those who are of another faith are damned and cursed. This can make them respond by evangelising and trying to convert them; or by regarding them as infidels who should be wiped out in case their views take hold.

Christianity is no different - no-one gets to god unless it is via Jesus apparently. Now a Christian can choose not to believe that bit, but again we are into pick 'n' mix.

norose, I do understand but is it fair to criticise people who do not live strictly to their faith ? No one becomes perfect through faith yet it is expected by atheists .

Wilma believes the church should sell all and give to the needy, surely the needy should be cared for by all not just by churches ?

I have a problem with the trimmings in a church but this doesn't stop me from giving all I can to the needy. I celebrate Christmas by attending mass, I eat only rice cakes that day , don't give or accept gifts, I send extra money to a homeless charity, this for me is following the teachings of Christ yet it is dismissed as garbage

Faith is so personal

Annie you are right faith or spiritual paths are very personal ask 3 witches about their path and you'll get 3 very different answers. Everyone has a right to believe what they want and if that means cherry picking bits from diffetent beluefs thats ok as well. You dont need to go and stand in an old freezing building to be a good person. Dont feel hurt by anyones opinion as the only opinion that matters is yours. Brightest blessings )O( xxx

Different beliefs obviously should wear my glasses when i type lol

Brightest blessings to you Hippy and thank you

I don't stand in an old freezing building to be a good person , I go there to share the fellowship

Annie Re your post at 11:41:59 I would never dismiss all that you describe in your second last paragraph as garbage, and I don't think that anyone else posting on here so far would. They are all about loving God and your neighbour - which Christ said were the two most important commandments, when people tried to trap him into implying that some commandments might not matter. He summed up all of them in those two.

But there are also a lot of things that are held by some to be as important a part of their faith as the central teachings, and these are things that have been added in the centuries since by various bossy-boots religious leaders. These are the things that appear to be garbage (and probably are)

That you will not be accepted into heaven if your dead body is destroyed.
That reciting a certain number of Hail Marys is more acceptable to God as a penance than private repentance and reparation.

In other religions -
That a woman must cover her head in the presence of men other than her husband and immediate family, and a really virtuous woman covers her whole head and body.
That cows are sacred and their meat should not be eaten, or that pigmeat is abhorrent (this caused a mutiny by both Muslims and Hindus in the Indian army, when it was rumoured that the cartridges protecting bullets were usually greased with beef or pork fat - the soldiers used to bite open the cartridges)
That switching on a light on the Sabbath is forbidden.

And many others which have nothing to do with true faith, but a lot to do with enforcing rules.

At the CofE school I went to I remember the nuns saying that they had to bathe in a sort of shroud so that they did not gaze upon their physical body and be tempted by worldly thoughts! - a garbage add-on if ever I heard one!

Added by someone who themselves considered that they found much pleasure in gazing at unclothed bodies (even their own) and wanted to control the possibility of anyone else finding any.

OK so I inadvertently attributed the teaching to JC when it should have been John the Baptist

“He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.” Luke 3:11 KJV

But JC is equal in his teaching about sharing (goes with the being nice to each other). I draw your attention to:

35 For I was hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison and, ye came unto me Matthew 25:35-36 KJV

24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God Matthew 19:24(KJV)

I'd like to point out once again that I'm not attacking anyone's faith. Simply the wealth that the churches are all sitting on. How can that be following JC's teachings?

These are some of the teachings of JC about sharing with those who are less fortunate. I refer you back to my previous post when I pointed out that JC didn't tell us how to worship. A lot of what happens in church is man devised. I am not dissing JC because as I said before whether he is the Son of God or not the world would indeed be a better place if we were all nice to each other.

coolgran65 ,you can have a humanist funeral,check it out online.I'll be having one of those when my time comes .I was raised a catholic in a what was then called mixed marriage ,mum catholic father Church of Scotland,I married in a church of Scotland and raised my kids in it ,purely because my late father in law insisted that if I took his sons name I must take his religion...it WAS over 40 years ago and I was only 20 ....now although we are very good friends with our local minister we never enter a church unless its for work purposes,we're photographers.A humanist seems the way to go

Well said Paddyann, Humanist often seem more Christian than 'Christians'

In no way do I feel superior to anyone no matter their faith , sadly many atheists do.

Some good came from this Wilma, you read some scripture

Those who say they don't believe in God are often the same ones who blame him when something goes wrong. We can't see God in one sense but we can in other ways, there again, we can't see Oxygen but we can see the result all around us. We don't go to church only on special occasions. I would rather believe in God than have nothing to believe in.

Gardenman, it's useless trying to explain to atheists how it feels to know the love of God, they are equally loved but refuse to acknowledge it.

When I read the word garbage I admit I was deeply hurt but when one thinks of the many who have died horrific deaths because they will not deny that love It hurts even more.

I would rather believe in God than have nothing to believe in.

Why? And why one god? Why not many gods?

I'm genuinely interested in why you feel this way.

I would like to believe all sorts of things that would be comforting and might make life better; but wishing such things does not make them real. Believing in god because you do not want to have nothing to believe in is understandable but not sustainable for many people.

I didn't wish to believe in God, I just did, I was aware of his love which was far too strong to dismiss, ignore or deny , there have been times when I have thought life may be easier if I joined the majority but for me it's like denying the dawn will break

In no way do I feel superior to anyone no matter their faith , sadly many atheists do.

What an odd thing to say! None of the people I know, whether religious or not, feel superior to others. At least, if any of them do, they don't show it or let on in any way.

As we meet different people than hardly surprising. Elegan most certainly put herself forward as superior to Jews, Hindud, Christians , Muslims , by scoffing at what to them are part of their faith. That authodox Jews have followed the teaching of their faith by not switching on a light on their Sabath is no different to those who practice the other nine commandments . I do not know one Catholic who pray the Hail Mary as penitence do so because they believe it finds favour with God, it is an act of penitence .

I respect atheists who have the grace to just say - I don't believe in God , those who dismiss it as garbage lack grace or respect for people's feelings as do those who defend them

I'm in a strange place at the moment with this one. I have been a believer all my life but after this year with my dad dying and a good, honest, kind friend dying too, my belief has been shaken.

But then I do think I am in the anger stage of my grief with my dad at the moment too, which I am finding hard. It's not nice to feel angry towards someone who is no longer here but some of the things he did when I was younger are coming into my head and the rose coloured glasses of the last few years have slipped slightly, leading to me feeling angry and frustrated. Frustrated because even in his last few years I wouldn't have been able to ask him why he did what he did when I was younger, as the dementia had already taken those memories away, or he had chosen to forget certain things. I did ask him some things but he couldn't remember. So I feel I will never have the answers to my needing to know.

My ex husband hit me, in the early years of our marriage and I went back home to mum and dad to stay for the time being. Both parents had a conversation upstairs which I heard saying that I couldn't stay there. Neither of them went to see ex husband to give him a roasting. But then they had lived their married life taking chunks out of each other so I suppose they would have been hypocrites to have done so. It didn't help me though and I felt totally unloved. I went back to him as I felt I didn't have a choice.

So in a lot of conflict at the moment. I am invited later today, to a memorial service from the church who did my dad's funeral. But I don't think that I can go and listen to it all today. Plus I don't want to be around others who have lost people too. Not just now.

I sometimes wish I could turn my mind off for a bit, like my mobile or the tele and have a break from my thoughts.

I've made a new friend of a neighbour, a lovely lady, and I have said I will drop in for a cup of tea sometime, so I might do that later after I've had some sleep.

Take care everyone. X