Are you an ex Christian?

When I was very young, about 12 ish, my sunday school took us to see Billy Graham in London. He was very charismatic and after awhile invited the audience to come onto the stage to give themselves to Jesus etc etc.
Wild horses would not have got me on that stage even when others went. I saw it for what it was a massive con and although I hope I live by Christian values I don't believe in God.

It seems most judge God by their experience with other Christians the church or history but your belief/faith has nothing to do with that, I agree the church has some bad history/people but that has nothing to do with God they are responsible for their own actions and were not acting under God's direction and have caused a lot of hurt and pain. We tend to need someone to blame but people professing to be Christians while doing wrong should be seen for what they are. Your faith is personal doesn't involve anyone else, yes Christians meet together but their faith is individual, you need to be decerning as in all walks of life.

Deni1 - very sensible post, well expressed. That's how I see it too.

Thanks for sharing your experiences everyone

I dont think being a Christian is in any way connected with belonging to a church of whatever denomination. I believe in Jesus Christ and all that is written in the New Testament. May I suggest that anyone who is interested just sit quietly and read the New Version of the New Testament as you would read any book. Listen in your heart to what it tells you and hopefully find some truth there. God loves us all and will speak to us as individuals. We just have to be prepared to listen.

I was baptised into the Church of England but my parents weren't religious, although my mother's brother was an evangelist. Suddenly, when I was about 8, I decided I should go to Sunday School. I went to the nearest one, as I had no idea about different churches and it was Presbyterian. I also rounded up several of my friends to go with me. After a year or so, I decided that the Presbyterian church was not what I was looking for and switched to the Baptists, mainly because my Brownie pack held their meetings in the Baptist Church. The Baptists didn't suit me either, so I went to the Church of England, sometimes as much as three times a day. There was still no input from my parents.The Church was and is, a huge part of my life. I wavered for a few years in my thirties, but I missed God do much that I soon got back into the fold. When I feel distressed or worried I turn to God and He is always there for me. He is a tangible presence in my life and has spoken to me on more than one occasion when I have been very upset. I am so glad and grateful that He is a major part of my life. I can't imagine life without God in it as He is just a fact of life to me and I can't understand why not everyone feels the same way. If you live by the commandments you can't go wrong!

Deni1 The quotation is "a little learning is a dangerous thing" not a little knowledge – a totally different meaning.

I understand how some can lose their faith if they feel failed by God, what I don't understand is how one be a Christian then decide it's not for them because of the actions of one person or a group of people, did they decide no more doctors for me after the Shipman case ?

I agree with Anifrance completely.

annifrance Just a ten minute prayer can have an amazing effect on your spirits. Whether it is because of God, or whether it simply mimics meditation, who knows? But it can be good. Maybe when you turn to your inner core, you find the same. But I'm not sure I would.

I was strongly involved in a Christian Church for about 17 years and for most of those years, I truly believed in a loving and caring god. Then I started to think for myself and realised, that for me, basic Christian values were important but belief in the Bible as the "word of God" and belief in a supreme and loving being were illogical. Subsequent events and revelations in my family confirmed to me that I had been believing in a lovely dream. This wasn't caused by other Christians behaving in an unchristian manner, by the way, although I could quote many instances of this. I knew many people who felt that as long as they confessed their sins, then God would forgive them. This gave them the freedom to be dishonest business people, unkind to non- Christians etc. because they could say sorry to their God and have a clean slate.

I'm not afraid of dying - it happens to everyone of course and like other posters I can only hope my end comes in a painless and comfortable manner. I would like to live for many more years as I have a life that I enjoy but that all depends on health and circumstance. My DH believes the same as I do although he became an atheist at a very young age.

much the same to me ...potato _ potato, tomato_ tomato

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Meaning

A small amount of knowledge can mislead people into thinking that they are more expert than they really are.

Origin

'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing' and 'a little learning is a dangerous thing' have been used synonymously since the 18th century.

Alexander Pope - A little knowledge is a dangerous thing The version 'a little learning' is widely attributed to Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744). It is found in An Essay on Criticism, 1709, and I can find no earlier example of the expression in print:

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again.

The similarity of the two phrases is demonstrated by what appears to be an impromptu coining of 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' in a piece in The monthly miscellany; or Gentleman and Lady's Complete Magazine, Vol II, 1774, in which the writer misquoted Pope:

Mr. Pope says, very truly, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Both Pope's original verse and the misquotation of it were predated by an anonymous author, signing himself 'A B', in the collection of letters published in 1698 as The mystery of phanaticism:

"Twas well observed by my Lord Bacon, That a little knowledge is apt to puff up, and make men giddy, but a greater share of it will set them right, and bring them to low and humble thoughts of themselves.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thingAgain, there is a degree of misquotation here; what 'my Lord Bacon', the English politician and philosopher Francis Bacon, Viscount St Alban, actually said, in The Essays: Of Atheism, 1601, was:

"A little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men’s minds about to religion."

So, who coined the phrase? It appears to have been a group effort. Bacon can be credited with the idea, Pope with the 'learning' version and the mysterious 'A B' with the 'knowledge' version.

Regardless of the actions of church goers or non church goers this was not a great part of my change of belief. I actually examined what I had been told and had learned over the years and found that it just did not make sense to me any more.

I had a dramatic conversion in the 60's, whilst I was talking to a C of E minister about baptism ( for my first born ). I mean dramatic: whilst the minister was talking I experienced a bright light, and became a believer, even though I had no religion in my upbringing. My husband was converted too, and we were both gathered into the evangelical communion. I met principled people who really cared about me, and as we moved about the country with my husband's work we were passed on from church to church. Many years later my husband had an affair, and I lost my faith overnight, perhaps because my fellow church goers couldn't handle my husband's hypocrisy (he'd been reading the lesson in church whilst conducting the affair for well over a year. They didn't seem to want to know me any more, even though I was the innocent party. Since then I've become a "half believer", as I've found tremendous comfort in prayer during difficult times. Thomas Hardy called himself "a questioner" , he too half believed. This is my position now.

Again not a personal understanding but what others passed on and there are over 300 fulfilled prophecies in the bible, we can be selective about the bible finding fault but again its about you and God, "oh that I understood it all lol" we have to stop looking to others and look only to God, that's the beauty of the Christian Faith we are free to seek Him for ourselves the only mediator being Jesus Christ. We are all at different places of understanding there is no one place for all, one may have a greater understanding about prayer one more about praise etc but that is where we all come together with our gifts/understanding, we all get times when we feel we know nothing but ... believe regardless of feelings. We cannot keep blaming others we can only forgive them if they hurt or mislead us and that's why we need to seek Him for ourselves if we don't we then look to others and become critical and unbelieving depending on experience, we support each other any way we can but would always say pray about things yourself ask Him to guide you, we are here for you, don't do or take what we say if you are not comfortable with it, we are each accountable for our own actions. Christians have exactly the same problems and shortfalls as everyone else, we mess up, sometimes we are in a dark place but the amazing thing is he is with us, we might feel abandoned alone but we are His and He is ours so he never leaves us, its ourselves or a situation that takes our eyes off Him. A child may think you are leaving them at the operating door there are strange noises, people, smells.. scary. but every part of your being every beat of your heart is with them every moment they are in there being helped by amazing people you trust your child with. Likewise we have scary bad times but He is with us every moment and we trust Him with our lives.
I am not saying its wrong for anyone else's thoughts or opinions who disagree I imagine nearly all of us have been there at some point but some have found their place in it all and that's a good thing isn't it? If you haven't found your place and want it, keep seeking, if you don't want it its a shame because God loves you.

Jaxie your conversion was real, life has tried to rob you of your belief but it cant, forgive those who have hurt you or let you down and free yourself to move on, you are strong enough in Christ, keep praying, God Bless you

Same with me, ginny!

Did anyone watch My Meditteranean with Adrian Chiles? It was all about religion and very interesting. Has anyone heard of the phrase "Religion is what we turn to in times of war - caused by religion." Makes you think!!!?

I grew up going to different churches - depending on which was nearest, or had the best youth club etc, and was confirmed in the C of E. But I was never comfortable singing hyms about 'heathens' in other lands, I thought if I was born in India I might have grown up as a Hindu or Sikh, or if born in a middle east country, I could be a dedicated (non fanatical) Moslem. All this was resolved when I came across a religion that teaches that there is only one God, and that religion is progressive - the message gets twisted over time and needs renewing, likewise as we advance we become capable of understanding deeper ideas. Religion consists of two parts - the eternal, fundamental, moral values which are the same in each religion, (as the Pope has recently testified) and the 'social' laws that suit the time and place. So, for example, for a nomadic tribe in the desert who live in tents, to cut of the hand of a thief after the third in incident, was necessary to safeguard the community, today we have prisons and it is an unecessary cruelty. There comes a point when you have to move forward, as going back is no longer relevant, so God sends a new Messenger in fulfillment of His promise in every Holy book. Amazing, wonderful, and I believe it with all my heart.

No more flights of fancy which were my delight.
I’m earth-bound now tho’ resigned to my plight.
Old age and infirmity have clipped my wings,
It will soon be the time when the fat lady sings

I wonder about this and then about that,
My curiosity would kill me if I were a cat.
But I always run into the same old stone wall.
I can see no reason, for my life here, at all.

Can it really be true there’s a God in control,
Who is very concerned about the state of my soul,
An all seeing eye, recording each deed?
There are many, I know, who hold to this creed.

What a wondrous thing to have such belief!
Accepting there’s a reason for our torment and grief.
Can they believe dementia is part of God’s plan?
But what purpose is served by the suffering of man?

Afterthought.
At my age, I won’t be left much longer in doubt.
Soon, fate’s fickle finger will winkle me out.
And like all others who have gone on before,
I’ll know what fate awaits beyond the dark door.

Shirlmidd Yes, I watched it and found it very interesting. Have to say though that the more I listened the more strange and fairy taleish all the different beliefs and rituals seemed.

I could not believe the Catholic cardinal who was asked how a Catholic divorcee could reconcile being divorced and a Catholic. His answer was along the lines of " Maybe you could get the marriage annulled as if there was no marriage ' . This to a man who had two children from the marriage !

No offence to anyone just my opinion.

Jaxie. I'm sorry you had such an awful time and fellow Christians around you did not support you. Hope life has improved for you since and hope you find God again.

Breath of Angels

I do not hear the breath of angels
I do not kneel and humbly pray
I do not sense the moving of the spirit
Or thank a lord for every dawning day

I do not see the need for praising;
I do not find the world that kind.
I do not share the guilt of ages
For ancient crimes I cannot call to mind

I do not place that burden on my children
I do not seek a meaning where there's none
I do not spend my time in striving
To solve life's mysteries; chase the sun.

I do not waste my life in speculation
I do not turn away reality
I do not rate the lives of mystics
Who hide away from life's brutality.

I do not shun the mess of loving
I do not seek an outside hand to guide
I do not want a ghostly being
Forever skulking at my side

I want to greet the world in all its sorrow
I want to taste the joy before it dies
I want the sullied purity of living
And do not look for heaven as a prize.

I m a chritian even though i dont beleave in the Virgin birth. Mathew, Mark, etc were born 10 yrs after Jesus death so, like the rest of the bible, a lot is hear say. Stories are repeated so many times that a lot is exagerated. Im sure there is a basis of truth in them. My daughter died age 43 in 2002 and I never blamed God. I dont blame him for the dreadful wars either Praying confuses me because, in war times both sides are asking for peace and victory.

When my husband died a very good friend took the service at the crematorium and many friends and family took turns to talk of Brians life. There was laughter and tears. I do believe in the after life so Im sure Brian was with us and laughing too. I hope this doesnt offend anyone. First time ivr written!

I suppose I am, but I find it hard to let go completely. I am a spiritual person and I think there is more in Heaven and Earth than we'll ever know, to misquote Hamlet.

I still like to think there is something more but I no longer go to church. I was rather put off by the congregation, some of whom were quite cliquey and seemed to lack the milk of human kindness. There were certain pews reserved for regulars and when a shelter for the homeless in a nearby area was in the planning stages, many objected because it would affect the neighbourhood and property prices! That made me smile but it also confirmed that I am OK with doing 'religion' my way. I used to cherry-pick the parts of Christianity that spoke to me anyway, and they were values held by decent human beings, whether Christian, religious or not. I am not one for regular meetings anyway...not needing a 'community' as some people do.

I'll often pop into churches because I like the architecture and history of them, and I really enjoy hymn singing. I love the language and poetry of hymns. I think it's such a shame that these old songs, learnt word-for word during schooldays and regular hymn practices are likely to be forgotten when the present 'silver army,' propping up the Christian church, is dead and buried. I find that sad.