Are you an ex Christian?

The various religions, in the main, provide a set of rules and guidelines that enable humans to live in communities. All of their works, Bible etc are worthy of reading regardless of your spiritual beliefs.

The bible is a very good read so,s the kuran.

You didn't know the bible yet dismiss it as garbage

I didn't dismiss JC teaching as garbage. Let's be honest Son of God or not he simply said, "Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone was nice to each other?". That was his basic teaching and therefore, that's what Christianity should be based upon. If, as he suggested, being nice to each other means sharing what you have with those less fortunate (the two coat story) then any Christian church that accumulates wealth and doesn't use that wealth to alleviate suffering is not following what JC said hence the garbage comment. Christian church services are designed by man and often cherry pick their version of worship. Hence some, like the RCs stress the importance of the Eucharist whilst other put their stress on the sermon or the prayers. JC was a Jew and, as far I as know, never laid down how someone should worship except with humility.

Whether you believe in transubstantiation or that the Eucharist is a symbolic act is up to you. The same goes for any other aspect of Christian teaching and tradition taken directly or otherwise from the NT.

You have every right to believe in any faith you choose to and practice it any way you choose. Equally people have the right to no faith.

I don't understand how you can expect to have a point of view on a website like this without, at times, being challenged. I accept that there are occasions when some/all people won't agree with me and will challenge me to substantiate my views. However at no time have I ever made comments that are aimed at other members personally. My comments are always about the subject of a post and not about the poster.

And will continue to do so.

Your ability and right to believe what you want and to express your beliefs is whole and intact, annie. So is mine. So far we and all other gransnetters are equal and have the same rights. Therefore there isn't a problem even if someone thinks (and says so) that what we think is garbage.

Some unfortunate individuals, in some less tolerant countries, such as the blogger Saif Badawi, are not so lucky and are physically and psychologically punished (imprisonment, floggings, etc) for expressing their views about life. That is a problem, not anything that's happening on these threads.

Then you too it seems are quoting garbage

If anyone hasn't heard of a shibboleth (Annie will have heard of it) - I looked it up at www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shibboleth.
"Did You Know?
The Bible's Book of Judges (12:4-6) tells the story of the Ephraimites, who, after they were routed by the Gileadite army, tried to retreat by sneaking across a ford of the Jordan River that was held by their enemy. The Gileadites, wary of the ploy, asked every soldier who tried to cross if he was an Ephraimite. When the soldier said "no," he was asked to say "shibboleth" (which means "stream" in Hebrew). Gileadites pronounced the word shibboleth, but Ephramites said "sibboleth." Anyone who left out the initial "sh" was killed on the spot. When English speakers first borrowed "shibboleth," they used it to mean "test phrase," but it has acquired additional meanings since that time."

As well as being used for words, one meaning given is "a custom or usage regarded as distinguishing one group from others"

I sometimes quote scripture, Annie because there are some timeless truths in there, for anyone, whatever their faith or non-faith.

It is the bits that have collected around those timeless truths that strike many people as garbage - the sisters who couldn't forgive the nieces for allowing their father to be cremated instead of buried is one. Something peripheral was turned into a shibboleth of their faith.

We have been round this same track several times before, and there are some posters who see any rejection of their views etc etc as a rejection of themselves and won't be convinced otherwise. Perhaps they feel that they would not have any existence without them?

Well I find dismissing the teachings of Christ as garbage as just a step too far , if I or sny poster quotes scripture they are talking garbage !

I have always respected all faiths and no faith thstbags

Yes, it is acceptable to regard an opinion or a view or a belief as garbage.

That is not the same as proving that the opinion, view or belief is garbage. It is expressing a different opinion or view or belief, or rejecting the one that has been offered.

The person whose view etc you are rejecting is not being rejected themselves, your opinion of them is as it always was.

It is NOT acceptable to regard a poster as garbage. That is a personal attack.

I won't be insulted or feel disrespected and neither will my ideas about those subjects.

Yes, it is acceptable to say that you think certain views are garbage. It's not the most diplomatic way of saying one disagrees but that's all it's saying.

Anyone is free to say they think what I believe and try to expres on Gransnet about equality and free speech is garbage.

Okay, *annie, in that case you have to respect the way people who think religious beliefs are garbage choose to live their lives and how they choose to express their beliefs.

What's the difference? It's not a one way thing.

So it's acceptable to dismiss any views posted as garbage ?

I didn't see a post that said you spoke garbage, Annie.

TBH I don't think you are doing Christianity any favours by taking offence at the slightest criticism of your beliefs.

You can respect people's choice - that is, their right to choose - while still thinking and saying that what they have chosen to believe has no sound basis - or if you think it very strongly, that it is garbage.

If you learnt that someone really did believe in the flying spaghetti monster, youi might say that is garbage - while still respecting their right to believe what they want to.

No thatbags, it it defending a way a person chooses to live their life , nothing to do with telling snyone to shut the hell up

Ana, is it not possible to disagree without declaring a person speaks garbage , I found it offensive to have my views dismissed as garbage

All this taking offence and feeling insulted or disrespected is just a device for getting people whose opinions one doesn't like to shut the hell up. In a fair world that's not on.

The opinion that said something was garbage wasn't expressed personally. It was a general remark expressing a person's general opinion. That's all.

No, annie has not been direspected. Faith in a god has been called garbage. Why shouldn't it be? Someone saying that doesn't make it garbage except to the person saying it and anyone who agrees with them. People who disagree have their beliefs and their freedom to hold and express their beliefs entirely intact.

Many witches believe "and ye harm none do what ye will" so yes you may have the opinion that someone elses beliefs are garbage but do you have to express that opinion personally i have many opinions about some religions but having been on the receiving end of other peoples opinions i tend to think twice about expressing them. It can be extremely hurtful to be told your beliefs are wrong and evil in my case so to be told your beliefs are garbage i would imagine is hurtful. I am of the opinion that sometimes its better to say nothing than hurt someone.