I read somewhere that 'all religions started off as cults'.
What do you think would go well with coasters like this?
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SubscribeHere is a very interesting essay by Henry Rambow about how he thinks religious radicalisation happens and how it leads to terrorism. He speaks as someone who was a fundamentalist christian. He did not become a terrorist but he says he understands how easy it could be for young people to adopt violent ideologies and to act on them.
This is from near the end when he is concluding:
"...moderate religion primes children — by the millions, if not billions — from an early age to accept without question the authority of the very same books that serve as the basis for fundamentalist ideologies, and it teaches children that the gods described in those books are worthy of worship. This renders these children susceptible to fundamentalist ideology when, as young adults, they begin seeking a purpose for their lives."
I read somewhere that 'all religions started off as cults'.
Thanks WW. It means I need to re-read the report about previous shootings and see where the author was coming from. If I can find it again I will try and put a link on here and you can tell me what you think.
Love the name ExaltedWombat but don't think all people with a strong view are always that intransigent
Are we all ging to studiously ignore the post by sarahc446655 ?
You first.
It needs a long think JbF
Spangles1963 that sounds credible doesn't it. At the very beginning these things start in a small way.
sarah yes I heard about the LGBT club being attacked in the States - appalling. I also seem to remember the same thing happening in the states month after month - often children or young people - appalling.
The gun laws need to be repealed. People with recognised mental instability need to be refused access to guns.
With regard to the Islamic faith - yes this is also a belief system and part of European Culture, although many of our citizens of Islamic faith come from the Commonwealth.
I can remember sitting in cars with my boyfriend canoodling because I know my parents would disapprove.
Trying to scapegoat one group is not an attractive thing to do, there is enough of that going on at the moment with Brexit.
The KKK are not Muslim , how much blood on the hands of this evil sect
I don't think there's any scapegoating in the article. The author is writing about religious radicalisation that might affect any person who, as he says, "accepts without question the authority of the very same books that serve as the basis for fundamentalist ideologies". He is saying, and I agree with him, that there is stuff in the bible and in the koran that can be interpreted in extremist ways and then acted upon. Recent terrorist attacks by people who themselves claim to be acting on behalf of Islam are examples of this happening. This in no way scapegoats all christians or all muslims. It is an attempt at trying to understand why this sort of attack happens and where on earth the perpetrators get the idea from that it is allright to kill gays pr to throw them off high buildings. The ideas are in the Koran and in the Bible, as the author explains.
Most people only use the good bits of those books.
There are other attacks, particularly in the US, where the cause of the killer's actions is different and, of course, ease of access to assault rifles and other such weapons does not help.
It is mostly religious groups that have opposed the implementation of equal marriage right to gay people. This, logically, must have something to do with what their religion teaches them and what they accept as god's word.
I think extremist ideologies and gun control need to be addressed, not just one or the other.
He doesnt take the Bible as a whole.
Same with anything really. If people choose to lob off bits of anything or, home in on something and ignore other parts, any manner of things could happen.It reminds me of diy flatpack instructions. If done correctly, it works out well. If not, any manner of things can ensue.
Common sense really.
bags did you mean my comment about scapegoating? Only if you did it wasn't about the article, but about something another poster said.
Gun control[not sure what that exactly means really] wont get anywhere, anytime soon. They love their guns in the USA.
At least the Buddha said "Question everything".
?
It was in response to "trying to scapegoat one group". Since I hadn't read any scapegoating in the article, I wondered why scapegoating came up and why it was mentioned. That's all.
Read Sarah's post then you'll understand my response
Certainly all Muslims (or 'Islamics') should not be blamed for terrorist acts done by Muslims in the name of their religion according to their fundamentalist beliefs. But I do think there are too many repressive Islamic regimes in the world; I do think that there are beliefs, about suitable punishments for various things they don't like such as blasphemy, being gay, being a victim of rape, etc., held by a lot of Muslims that we ought to challenge. So I don't think it's wrong to challenge Islam and Islamism. That is not scapegoating, it's challenging ideologies.
If we were still in a period of Christian crusading and killing of infidels, I'd be saying the same about Christian ideology, or whichever group ideology, or ideology based on any inhumane ideas that was causing problems for others. In the case of the killings at the Boston marathon, at the Paris offices of Charlie Hebdo, of the murder of a British soldier on the street in the UK, of 9/11, and it seems of the recent Orlando shootings, the ideology that drives the killers can be found in the Koran, the 'holy' book of Islam.
I don't see how pretending this isn't so will help change anything. We need to stop saying such attacks have "nothing to do with Islam; that simply isn't true. They may have nothing to do with most people's Islam but they are inspired by writings in the Koran, just as Christian crusaders were inspired by writings in the bible.
The US also needs to seriously address its gun laws. Again, we can't scapegoat gun owners as a group because most of them never commit a crime. But we can say that making it harder for some types of gun to be bought easily might make a difference. There already has been a change in the law about machine guns. Now they need one about assault rifles, at the very least.
I forget how many people have been killed this years by toddlers alone, so it seems a number of Americans are careless with their guns too. That's a separate issue.
Although the post you referred to, ww, was expressed in a way that could be seen as a scapegoating tactic, I actually think the poster wanted, like me, to challenge some harmful fundamentalist and everyday islamic ideas as unfit for the modern world.
Here's another good piece addressing "vicious ideology" as well as gun control. Author goes by thr name of Futile Democracy on the blog.
That essay is interesting, thatbags. I didn't know much about King Josiah, who was so ruthless in wiping out the idol worshippers of his day, death and destruction all around, so read some from 2 Kings 23.
Then googled further about him and found this example: www.biblefunforkids.com/2014/04/king-josiah.html
Which is rather ironic.
Sarah's post puts the crux of the problem, imo. The difference is that in the current situation one group is imposing it's opinions on others of completely different views and origins by force. There are examples in the past of that also eg the Crusades.
ps I meant your original link, haven't read the others yet.
Since the birth of religion there has always been fundamentalism.
Through out history all religions have had fanatics carrying out atrocities against their fellow man.
I fear that in 100 yrs or so it will still be happening.
sarahc446655 the majority of muslims in this country are as much against the violence as the rest of us. Your post is bigoted. And, I think offensive.
And if you took the trouble to read Gransnet p;roperly you would see that there has been a thread about the tragic happenings in Orlando. It is insulting to accuse us of not having heard about that.
link to the thread in question if you are still around to read it.
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