Proof that Jesus lived.

I have heard it argued that there were actually quite a few Jewish Messiahs during the Roman occupation of Christ's homeland and that they were actually, and not surprisingly, political rebels

Yup and Jesus had a good PR man in the shape of Paul.

I have no doubt Jesus existed (would like to think some sort of Arthur did as well), but I’m not convinced he was the son of God or that God existed.

Very good Maw! I forgot about the extra month.

As if calculating the date of Easter wasn’t complicated enough, Passover and Easter do not always fall at the same time it seems

Every two or three years the Jewish calendar requires the adjustment of a leap year. During a Jewish leap year an additional month of 29 days is inserted before the month of Nisan. The additional month is needed because the Jewish calendar year has fewer days than the solar year and begins to slip out of gear with the seasons. The extra month thus realigns the Jewish calendar year with the seasons of the solar year. This is important because the Jewish holidays are closely related to the seasons. For example, the Torah commands that Passover be celebrated in the spring
Every so often the Jewish leap year will push Passover so far into April that a second full moon following the vernal equinox would appear before the Sunday following Passover. This happens anytime the Sunday following Passover falls later than April 25th on our calendar. On those rare occasions Easter is celebrated the month before Passover rather than the Sunday following Passover

Got all of that ?

The Last Supper - I think this was the Passover meal.
That's why Easter always coincides with Passover.
Passover begins on the 15th day of the month of Nisan, which typically falls in March or April of the Gregorian calendar.

Jalima there is a new updated version of the bible as history available on Amazon

Just read the Wiki site. He sounds very interesting. I will read more about him. Thank you pollyperkins.

Has anyone read books by Bishop Spong? I was very impressed with his take on all this. At last it all made sense.

Like others, I have no doubt that Jesus existed, but that doesn't prove there is a 'God'. The crucifixion was all planned. Jesus knew very well what was going to happen to him, he could have avoided it if he had wished. Why was it necessary for Judas to identify Jesus, if the Romans already knew who he was? While on the cross, he was offered something on a sponge...a drug perhaps? For some reason, which has never been explained to me, Jesus had to be seen to have died and been raised from the dead.

According to the Gospels Jesus was indeed taken down from the cross before sunset on the Friday because of the Jewish Sabbath. The Gospel according to St. John says "because this Sabbath was great" which can be taken either to mean that it was Shabbat Rabbah ( the great sabbath, i.e. the one immediately after the Passover) or if you want to make the Crucifixion fit with the fact that Jesus celebrated the start of the Passover with his disciples on the Thursday, it was the Sabbath that occurred witin the week of the Passover.

Critics of Christianity as far back as the Roman Empire have called the resurrection a scam, but could we please try to be a little more respectful both of peoples' right to believe what they want and to hold the opposite views to what we ourselves do.

It is about faith. I believe Jesus existed, was crucified and the third day rose again. Can I prove it, no, do I believe it, yes.

I think there is enough evidence to show that Jesus existed but whether or not he was divine is a matter of faith.

Iam64 If the the resurrection did not happen then Jesus was just a man who did not conquer death? A good man and a teacher but not the son of God? I think that to be Christian it is essential to have belief in virgin birth and the resurrection. I am not stating my personal beliefs here, but the foundation of the Christian church.

He didn't say that exactly Telly

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43594812

He will compare resurrection reports to fake news, saying people were "greeted with absolute scorn" after claiming to see Jesus alive.

The congregation will also be urged to help those struggling with life.

"At first the things they had to say were completely doubted and totally dismissed; treated as idle tales; greeted with absolute scorn.

"Put into today's language, they were thought to be 'fake news'.
"But it is because of the subsequent experience of all those people, that faith and certainty grew from the ashes of doubt and scorn. Fake news became good news."^

Telly, why would reasonable and well informed discussion about the account of Jesus rising from the tomb throw the whole basis of the Christian religion into doubt.

It's possible to believe that Jesus existed and to see the parables and Bible stories as brilliant life lessons, without having the faith (that some have) to believe that Jesus fed the 5,000, walked on water and rose from the dead. Our current vicar absolutely believes that Jesus rose from the dead, our previous vicar took a more analytical view of this but their faith is equally strong.

And yet the Archibishop of Wales is quoted as saying: ..... 'in an interview about the New Testament account of Jesus rising from the tomb, the Archbishop said: ‘I don’t think any of us actually knows, quite frankly.’
Strikes me that if this is not true then the whole basis of the Christian religion is put into doubt??

What happened to our philosophical discussion that was suggested months ago about the truth behind the Bible stories and how some of the miracles such as the parting of the Red Sea actually happened?

I still can't find my copy of The Bible as History so it is obviously on permanent loan to someone

A good post Eloethan, it is possible to believe or know that Jesus existed, whether or not one believeshe was the Son of God.

He has been portrayed as kind and gentle and he probably was, but also could become angry about injustices.

If one believes, then one would believe that Judas was playing the role chosen for him by God.

I was watching a recent Simon Reeve programme where he ended up in Jerusalem and it seems even today that there are a good few people who believe they are the new Messiah and are working in a variety of jobs until it is their time. They are of various nationalities.

It's a matter of faith paddyann. Not something that can be proved to someone who doesn't believe or disproved to someone who does.

I do feel sorry for Judas, I think he loved Jesus, he saw Jesus as the leader who would free their people from oppression, how he must have felt when the people chose to crucify Jesus, perhaps even then he thought Jesus would perform a miracle and get off that cross, or God would send down a thunderbolt. Little wonder he hanged himself poor man.

Wonder if, when he got to heaven, God said " someone had to do it "

I'm glad you feel sorry for Judas. I always thought he got a bad press. In order to fulfil prophecy Jesus had to be betrayed. I think Judas was following orders.

I don't doubt the existence of Jesus. I think he was a rabbi who taught things that the establishment didn't like hence they went after him. The Romans simply saw him as a trouble maker. They had sorted Judah and got the establishment on their side. The last thing they wanted was the establishment being undermined. My problem arises with his divinity and how the early Church decided what was to become doctrine/truth and what was to be left out/hidden from the people.

You can always ignore the scriptures Eleothan

Poor judas was a political rebel , several of the apostles were

I have heard it argued that there were actually quite a few Jewish Messiahs during the Roman occupation of Christ's homeland and that they were actually, and not surprisingly, political rebels.

Well said eleothan as usual (wish I had your considered judgement)