The Pope

Obviously very staunch catholics here! Child abuse happens. It's inexcusable wherever it happens. It has been shown to be very widespread in a large wealthy organisation, the Catholic Church, which purports to be 'good' and has had enormous power over vast swathes of poor people over the years. That's what makes it so shocking. The blind faith of decent people who genuinely respected and looked up to the priests and nuns.
My DH didn't tell his parents what he saw was going on as he knew he'd never be believed and would be punished for even saying so. Just what so many people are now reporting as the child abuse investigation goes on. It's so sad.

Saggi
I couldn't agree more.

annsixty
I am an athiest but brought up and confirmed in the C of E.
My father was C of E, mother Catholic. Mum's parents split when she was 6 and she was put into a convent full time until she was 17. No visit from parents, no home to go to in the holidays...1 piece of bread with a scraping of margerine for breakfast on 6 days and a dab of jam on Sundays.
Mum had nothing but contempt for the system and no truck with religion after she left. What she told me was truly horrible.
Later, after I married I was friends with a girl whose mum was a staunch Catholic, icons everywhere. I remember 'Father X' coming to her house wearing an astrakaan hat and a benevolent smile. He came, not to give but to collect dues. Sfter a cup of tea and some mealy-mouthed words of 'comfort', he left, ruddy cheeked from the well stoked fire plus 'a nip if you have it', pound notes in his pocket and 'Bless you' lingering in the air.
This was a family whose father drove a truck, mother cleaned houses, their 4 children were a credit to them but none followed any religion.
That priest was only ever seen visiting parishioners when collecting money and that's a fact.

Well said Bluekitchen .

Saggie, I am sorry you hate me, but wanting to blow me up is rather drastic surely.

Any religion just leaves me cold and rightly or wrongly, I do just associate it with hypocrisy, intolerance and wars. I respect others views and do not criticise believers and have actually seen how religion has given many an inner strength when dealing with grief etc, but it’s just not for me. There is good and evil in all walks of life that’s for sure and I’ve seen it 1st hand in my career ... things that have shocked me and things that restore your faith in humanity, witnessing others selflessness. History is full of horror, greed, abuse etc I just wish many would learn from it and make the world a better place. Very deep for a Bank Holiday ! Just going to go blackberry picking with grandson ....

I too was educated by nuns and grew up in a deeply religious Catholic family. The priests of the parish were supported by the people (no other income) so we gave three times a year like everyone else. I cannot ever remember them demanding money.

Like all Catholic schools, a discreet second hand clothing service was run so that children could have uniform, shoes, a First Communion dress. The emphasis was always on discretion.
My own children attended Catholic schools here. Certainly there was a call for a voluntary contribution for all parents which paid for many things, including the previously mentioned discreet charity provision for the poorer children. Certainly a talented family of my acquaintance were given bursaries so their sons could travel abroad with the choir. As a family we had several lean years where I couldn't contribute anything at all. No one made a fuss or even mentioned it.

If there is anyone here who belives that orphan or abused children are better off being looked after by the laeity, then I suggest they look a bit harder at their own prejudices before requiring the Pope to do so..

Just read your post Rosina.... you're a little late to 'enlightenment' but you've finially seen the 'true' light. Keep up the transformation.

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Terri, we always had missionary boxes They were not collected though, we took them to church when they were full and collected another box.

Possibly Annie. I know my parents' church in Sussex where they lived in retirement seemed to have permanent collections for places like Darfur. My mum always had a collection tin at home where she put her loose change I also discovered when I was sorting out her papers after she died she had a couple direct debits going to church related charities such as CAFOD, I never doubt other people's experiences but clearly they are not uniform

I did enjoy The Festival of Families last night

I have felt so strongly for most of my adult life that the Catholic Church rules by fear, and the Church of England, like the Catholic Church, is so rich and has such an abundance of wealth and yet allows people to struggle on in need. I wonder what Jesus would make of it all? I recently discovered that 'purgatory' is a complete invention of the Catholic Church and was a way of extracting even more money from people so poor that they were barely clinging to life. 'Prayers' would be said for their departed who would remain in purgatory until the relatives paid up . What a disgrace - no wonder the Church didn't want the bible translated into English so that simple people would discover that there was no mention of purgatory. There are many good people in both churches of course, but the institutions disturb me for so many reasons.

Terri, it never happened in Aberfan or the towns I moved to , not in the town where I live , some places were not affluent, I wonder if the collections were ‘missionary collections .

I'm wondering too Annie. I have heard of it so I believe it, but it never happened in my parish to my knowledge when I was growing up in Surrey, maybe they got more in the collection plate, mine was an affluent town, although most of us like myself came from ordinary backgrounds there were nevertheless plenty of wealthy people at my church. Who knows!

Wonder why collecting money happened in some parishes and not others.

As a teenager in the 60s I had Irish catholic friends who had moved to London who told me about the priests coming to their homes regularly to eat/drink and the expectation of being given money even if the family could not afford it. They lived in fear of them describing how their parents tried to shush the children and pretend they weren’t at home and I remember all these years later how shocked I was at the power these priests seemed to wield.
Obviously there are good and bad but this is what I heard and had no reason to disbelieve it.

I read the book and watched the film Terri , some children were told their parents were dead. This is why I said I wish child abuse could be discussed calmly , but accept it isn’t possible because ?

There was a film a few years ago called "Sunshine and Oranges" starring Emily Watson that dealt with the subject of child emigres from care homes in post war Britain who suffered abuse when they were shipped to institutionalised work in Australia. The first time I ever heard about such placements was in a tv drama, quite a while ago, called something like "Leaving Liverpool" Again, the subject was post war children in orphanages being sent out to our former colonies for supposedly a better life but ending up in miserable circumstances and abused by those who were supposed to be caring for them which blighted their entire lives. It made a big impression on me at the time. I think some of these children were temporarily in care because of financial difficulties within the family and I'm not sure their actual parents knew or gave consent for their removal. These were times when countries such as Australia were under populated and needed young workers for many of the farms etc. Some of the children were very young, not much more than babies
Very upsetting.

Liz, I am horrified to, i was deeply shocked when a girl in the village I lived in , a small country village, was sexually abused by her father. Spoke to victims in the North Wales Home child abuse case.

Anniebach, I think we are all shocked and horrified that things like this can happen. These people with their evil thoughts seem to manage to get into responsible positions where they have access to victims.

I am not clever enough to know how to stop it. I suppose the more that decent people are aware of it, the better.

We need to accept there was and is child abuse within the church and within families , why? Priests, council children’s homes, teachers, parents , wish we could discuss this calmly

The "good" ones all knew about the bad'uns! It was common knowledge and institutionally wide spread. They all have to shoulder the blame especially the pope.

My great uncle was sent to a farm in Canada as his mum died his father married very quickly and he kept running away from the step mother to his Nans house so at the ripe old age of 10 or 12 he was shipped right away as punishment He had a very hard life for the rest of his childhood but made good in the end married locally and never saw his father or his much loved Nan again

I just remembered Gordon Brown made an apology to the many children sent to the colonies, looked it up, 1920 to 1970, 130,000 children.

Anniebach, I can't do a link from the chromebook but there is a good Guardian article from lasy year 'Britain's child migrant programme: why 130,000 children were shipped abroad'. If you google it, it is easy to find. Some of the children were told they were orphans and a social worker has been trying to reunite some of these people with their families.