The Pope

I know you mean 1970 it just looked so funny 1070

Gemmag oooh you must be awfully old if you've lived in England since 1070, I expect you remember the Norman Invasion

Ilovecheese.........it was the terrible shame of it. Girls could not/should not have sex before marriage. That was the churches teaching so the girls who became pregnant either got married quickly or were sometimes sent away to have their babies and no one knew outside of the family.
I was educated in a convent school in Cork and some of the nuns there were quite wicket. It was an inclosed order ( Presentation Sisters) and so they took all their frustrations out on us girls. I was caned on a few occasions ?. My two brothers went to a Jesuit school and I remember one of them been hit with a leather strap. My father lived abroad and my mother just put up with it as I think she was too frightened to do anything about it but she was very unhappy at times. The church ruled......
Some of the nuns were lovely and when at eleven I went to another convent school in Dublin it was very different. I loved my time there. So I just want to say that some of the things you are hearing here are true.
I have lived in England since 1070 and reading some of the posts have made me think and remember stuff that I had almost forgotten. Ireland is such a different country today to the one I grew up in, its much the same as this country except that the accent Is different and boys and girls have fun?. There’s no point in me wishing that things had been different as growing up in Ireland in the 1950/60s is what has shaped me and made me the person I am and I was very happy living there. I only came to England on a holiday but like lots of others ended up staying here. There was so much going on in London and I met my husband and there was no going back then except for holidays.
I don’t think the Popes visit today will not change a thing.

Oh yes. I'm sure that parents thought they were doing the right thing. Guidance came from those they respected and looked up to - the church! Poor girls, poor babies, poor children, poor families.

Two wrongs never made a right Anniebach and circumstances sometimes made it impossible to feed an extra mouth I guess they may have thought they were doing the child and young, often very young mother, a chance in life by sending the. Pto be looked after by those who were ‘ closer to God’ and beyond doing anything but good It’s only with hindsight we the general public know what really happened

I know how much religion means to many, particularly Annie, I completely understand why and I certainly wouldn't want to offend you in particular. I just find it really hard sometimes knowing that I was brought up in a religion that I was indoctrinated into and encouraged to be in thrall to, both at school and at home, knowing now that so many wrong doings were committed and swept under the carpet.

A number of, by now, elderly nuns have actually been arrested subsequent to the findings of the child abuse enquiry up here. A shocking headline to read.

There were also a lot of kids who were temporarily in care after the war, in urban areas such as London and Liverpool. I imagine they were there due to financial hardship in the family. They were sent out to Canada and Australia and sadly abused by religious orders when they got there. I'm not sure their parents ever knew that their children had been earmarked to be young emigres, or possibly it was sold to them in such a way as they thought there would be more opportunities than they could possibly offer them. In any case there has been a lot of interviews with those children as adults of late and the awful abuse they suffered.

Perhaps the abusers did pray for forgiveness.

BlueBell, what about the parents who put their daughters in those homes and didn’t even know their grandchild had died or been adopted because they had cut mother and baby out of their lives.

I grew up in a very catholic household and I have to say I never remember the priest coming round ever. The only financial onus was to put money in the plate when it was passed around at mass.

The nuns at my senior convent school and catholic junior school were in the main vile, apart from one, they actively seemed to dislike children, so my heart goes out to the youngsters who were in homes that were overseen by the incongruously named Sisters of Mercy, at least as day girls we could go home at night.

My mother, although a committed catholic admitted she also suffered at her catholic school. The French protestant side of her family paid for her and her brother to go to a non denominational school but got into arguments with the Irish catholics side of the family who insisted they should attend a catholic school, the English members of the family kept out of it and in the end Irish side got their way. She would often tell me throughout my childhood how awful her catholic school was and cursed the Irish relatives for insisting she went there. However, it didn't stop her sending her own children to something similar.

I know there are two sides to the catholic church, as there generally is two sides to most things in life. I saw a kinder more compassionate side, when my mum was a widow, her church was a huge support both spiritually and socially and proved to be a real lynchpin at that time in her life. It's a shame that the very kind people within it have been tarnished by the notorious wickedness that has been swept under the carpet over the years, but therein lies a large part of the problem, particularly it seems in Ireland.

I read a good article in The Guardian recently wherein one of their Catholic journalists wrote that Pope Francis, who she said she liked very much, nevertheless prior to the Ireland visit said something along the lines "let us pray for forgiveness for the wrong doings of the past". She made the point that made her angry, and I agree, let those who carried out the abuse, or who were complicit by their silence, ask for forgiveness, don't put that onus on to everybody else.

I shouldn’t think anyone is doubting there are good and bad in all walks of life, the difference being these were crimes against children by people who pretended to be a Godlike and the VERY VERY worst part is that it was all covered up for donkey years, it is well documented that priests were moved around only to start it again in a different area
Again the mother and baby units were in some areas Ireland for sure awful places Did any see or read Philomena ?

Watching Pope Francis on tv now, remembering Pope John Paul’s visit to Ireland 40 years ago. I watched some of the visit with the sisters in the convent , they were allowed a TV set to watch the visit, the lead up to it was exciting and sad, some were to be allowed to go over to Ireland but not all, they had to wait to hear from The Mother House who went and who stayed , i so wished they could have all gone . It was the same come summer holidays , who could go home to see their families in Ireland who couldn’t , The youngest sister who was such fun said to me ‘ I really hope I will go home this year, I said so sympathetically ‘are you homesick sister’ she said ‘ no my home is where ever I am needed, I am fed up of darning my cardigans and my mother will give me some new cardigans and yes some hugs too’ . They had no money , every year our Anglican Church held a week of bread and cheese lunches for Christian Aid week, the Rev Mother would place individual coins on the refrectory table for the sisters to pay for the lunch, I ate a meal in the evening they didn’t eat again untill the following morning.

They were lovely women, so much love and a lot of laughter too.

My dear MiL refused to believe a word against the Christian brothers. Parents did in those days of respect for people seen as their 'betters'.
DH always said that there were some very good and conscientious brothers at his school but they couldn't seem to protect the vulnerable boys. Luckily he was left alone. Will say no more other than that I'm not in the least surprised at revelations emerging.

I have met only good caring nuns and priests . When my Father was lying at home really ill the local priest sat with him to let Mum out . I only found out after he had died . One of my school pals ended up in a Mother and Baby home , she was completely unphased by the whole thing , signed her baby away and got on with life .....
Then , years later she changed her story and of course it was the lies were believed , another pal of my younger sister was sent away by her Parents to have the child adopted . She has never recovered even though she has more children . It is true that parents sent girls to these places . That does not mean I excuse them , but there were/are more good kind nuns than bad , just as in the rest of the population

My husband grew up in a large Catholic family. As my father in law was away working the priest would regularly visit the family to ensure they were OK and certainly never expected any money. At Christmas he would arrange for there to be extra food in the house. My DH said the monks who taught him were very strict but there was never any abuse. No-one is denying there has been abuse, and in the past it was covered up. The Pope has condemned the failures of the church and the cover ups.

I agree with you too Grannyactivist. But I also can't understand how the parents of those girls could send them away.

A conundrum indeed!

An institution whose HQ is bursting at the seams with untold wealth and treasures.
Things that no living soul apart from the most Venerable will ever set eyes upon.

Would it not be the Christian way to pass on some of this wealth to those in dire need.
Not forgetting those abused by church?

In the interest of fairness I do understand that there are other religious institutions of great wealth.

This is only my humble opinion and I do believe in god.
Just find it difficult to understand.

Reminds me of The Counting of the money in the House of the Lord.

i m totally in agreement with you Grannyactivist I m not a catholic but went to a catholic school and had a very good school life with nuns I was very fond of, however one priest at the local church stole a large amount of money and another who was the one designated for the children to talk to if they had problems has more recently been tried for historical sexual abuse

I've seen both sides of this - and therein lies the conundrum; there are nuns and priests who have systematically and cruelly abused children and young women for their own gratification and there are also nuns and priests who have selflessly and tirelessly worked on behalf of children and young women to give them a better life. I have met both.

If you have only met one or the other it is perhaps more challenging to believe that your experience is not a shared or 'normal' one.

My MIL was regularly called upon by the priest for cash, despite her having several children and in much reduced circumstances.

I obviously didn't read my post to see how it sounded.
My friends mother wasn't visited by the priest, she saw it in her community.
They were actually quite comfortable for the time this was in.

Nankate I've never known or even heard of a priest in my area who was abusive ,I did know personally a C of S minister who was jailed for it in the 70's and he was married with children.It happens in all religions and all walks of life .

Then I apologise ,its not something I've ever heard before.Priests visited our extended family for decades and I've never seen or heard of them asking for or getting money from their parishioners.The only money they collected was from the collections during mass .

No Chinese whispers from me either. Accusing people of making up this sort of thing and much worse is what led to the widespread abuse being covered up for years.

paddyann, no chinese whispers in my case. I saw it myself over 50 years ago.