As an agnostic

Has any one mentioned the Ten Commandments? God or not, these are principles to live by.

Rosina, I did not say that you were cynical. (Nor did I refer to "individuals".) Relax. Christmas is for everyone - the greedy, the good and the generous, especially sinners like me.

No offence taken, all I ask is priests and nuns who spend their lives in the service of God and therefore in the service of man are not judged as living the life of Riley, they are working around the world, caring for Street children, teaching children in church schools where the country do not provide schools. In this country they work in prisons, hospitals, hospices, care homes , in the community , they baptise babies, bury the dead. Have bingo nights in their church halls, work in food banks. Please don’t judge all by the actions of some.

Oh - and which 'individuals' did I criticise?

I am far from cynical Grannie Annie and try hard not judge anyone - you rarely know what is going on in other lives and, getting older, am more inclined to see every point of view. However, those are the facts; the C of E is phenomenally rich and, although there are without doubt hundreds of ministers who try to ease the burdens of those around them, how much more could be done if the Church of England were more open handed with the wealth and passed some on to its own 'Clerks in Holy Orders'? ( A local vicar was a friend; like you he had to vacate his detached house, and had to apply to the local housing department when he retired. I saw this as such a slap in the face as the Church had many properties in the area of London where we lived, and by vacating his home - at the Church's request - they had made him one of the homeless.) This is not a tirade against local ministers; I mentioned the Church of England, the controlling body. There is never an easy answer; so many opinions that are formed through personal experience.

Fair comment Anniebach. I certainly don’t want to cause offence (to anyone!).

It was a reply not a sting. if one is going to judge and critcise they should at least get their facts right. Priests live in tied houses just as farm workers do, their could earn much more in other occupations than in the Church. And Rosina did critcise individuals .

There is one person who has caused me so much harm and hurt with lies, he is a Quaker, I do not judge all Quakers because of the actions of one.

Yes I have opened my home to people in need, I use to short term foster teenage girls from families with troubles, I have given night shelter to people in distress.

A dear friend of many years, a priest has spent December sleeping in his church which he has opened to the homeless, during the day he holds services for those who wish to attend church services, visits the sick in his parish, is chaplain to a hospital ,

I suggest googling for the temple where the Daila Llama lives

And we must not forget the spirit of goodwill and patience
My God is a good God .I do not believe in the burning in hell the more I understand him the more I believe in his compassion and love to all mankind

I think you mean "explanatory"
Still unmitigated and uninformed b*ll*cks of course

As a former Baptist minister's wife, I would like to shed light on Rosina's concept of "nice houses". We were given a manse to live in which we had to vacate when leaving the job. The stipend was very low, so saving up towards retirement was challenging. Spending had to be minimal. But we did receive donations of old clothes and toys for the children. The most memorable was a bike. "Here's a bicycle we don't want any more. It's got only one wheel, but we thought you might want it." My then husband told me that people judged us on our homes and clothes. I was cynical then but Rosina has confirmed this.

I think it is a general misconception that the church is still very wealthy. Much of its wealth is required to pay the pensions of retired clergy and maintain its buildings. Much of the 'wealth' of the church has already been sold off for this purpose. It certainly isn't how it used to be.

It is interesting that the most condemnation of wealthy churches comes from those who never set foot in one, either for worship or to ask for help in extremity.

My thoughts are with the people of Indonesia.
Is there more truth in the book of Revelations than what we want to admit?

The wealth displayed in (some) churches is visible and obvious, and much of it has been there for centuries, having been given by wealthy people long ago.

The care shown to the homeless and hopeless, by all churches, of all denominations, and all non-Christian religions too, is invisible and not seen by those who don't need it. Don't be so quick to condemn, or to assume that a "good Christian" has done nothing for anyone else in the course of her long and often difficult life.

MawBroom one of your better, well thought out and explanative posts I see.

Anniebach that was a sting to Rosina. Have you as a good Christian person taken a homeless person into your home? Thought not. It’s not about the individual here. Rosina was posting about the wealth of churches. Not us.

I am a priest. I became one after retirement. I am not paid and live on a pension. I used to volunteer with the homeless an worked for the nhs. I hate fundamentalism in any form. You are right that it’s aboutwhat we do rather than what we believe. Christians are not the only ones who believe this. This is true religion, to love our neighbors. And the micah 6.8 quote is perfect. Btw I live in a small estate house! Paid priests in the Anglican Church get a tied house, so part of their salary and taxable. Salaries aren’t huge in this country... but it’s a great role ...

Good post Rosina. I am a Quaker, it might sound strange but I don't believe in a god but in the Quakers way of life and I am accepted, there is no preaching, just peace and the will the to help others.

c-18 10:08:06
Good post Rosina. I have never ever encountered a poor Priest or Vicar.They all appear to live in nice houses

In the spirit of Christmas I will only say
What a load of b*ll*cks

I know many atheists and agnostics who in their comfy homes condemn Christians for having a home.

Good post Rosina. I have never ever encountered a poor Priest or Vicar.
They all appear to live in nice houses.
Even in the 50's this was the case.
No austerity there, but they freely condemn it.
Probably the same with other faiths too having a bit of experience of human nature.

Rosina, be kind includes not judging . By your post you have no knowledge of how many Churches are open to the homless . Have you taken a stranger into your home ?

As an atheist, I’m with you Rosina. So much opulence and wealth in some of these churches (all faiths). That said, it must be a real comfort to be a believer. I kind of envy those who think there’s more after this life. An everlasting life.

You have a point, but I think you will find that the majority of Food Banks are run by churches, and many Christians( and people of all faiths and none ) do charitable work too.

We need so much to take care of each other and not be indifferent. The answer to the Biblical question 'Am I my brother's keeper?' is 'Yes'. I have little patience with a church that has untold wealth and yet allows people to sit on the streets in the cold - would Jesus have walked by? Did he want to see the leaders of his flock living in fabulous palaces and wearing ornate clothing? Or would he have thrown open all those bishop's palaces, rectories, vicarages and all buildings owned by churches and called people in.
The Dalai Lama has no religious buildings, his faith is inside him and he lives it, and his mantra is 'Be kind - it is always possible to be kind'. I feel that way of life is so much closer to Jesus' teaching than the Christian organisations of today.
Happy Christmas everyone.