As an agnostic

Not a lot to disagree with in that cindersdad, whether Christian, atheist, Buddhist, Jew, Muslim, humanist, atheist or agnostic.

Good post cindersdad

Nice message,thank you.

As a Christian and a member of the Church in Wales I am puzzled by ‘preachers are generally better if they worked outside the church before becoming part of it’.

Priests are not brought up in some enclosed order from birth and take Holy Orders at age 18. They are brought up and live in the real world, sons and daughters of parents from all walks of life.

Thinking of priests who are friends of mine one owned a shoe shop , one was a police officer, one a maths teacher, one a probation officer, one went to university, studied theology and psychology. In my own family Baptists not Anglicans, three worked in coal mines.

Every Christian knows God is their judge , Christ has told us this and how we should live our lives .

The Book of Micah tells us

‘ he hath shown thee oh man what is good and what doth the Lord require of thee ‘ but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God’.

We need so much to take care of each other and not be indifferent. The answer to the Biblical question 'Am I my brother's keeper?' is 'Yes'. I have little patience with a church that has untold wealth and yet allows people to sit on the streets in the cold - would Jesus have walked by? Did he want to see the leaders of his flock living in fabulous palaces and wearing ornate clothing? Or would he have thrown open all those bishop's palaces, rectories, vicarages and all buildings owned by churches and called people in.
The Dalai Lama has no religious buildings, his faith is inside him and he lives it, and his mantra is 'Be kind - it is always possible to be kind'. I feel that way of life is so much closer to Jesus' teaching than the Christian organisations of today.
Happy Christmas everyone.

You have a point, but I think you will find that the majority of Food Banks are run by churches, and many Christians( and people of all faiths and none ) do charitable work too.

As an atheist, I’m with you Rosina. So much opulence and wealth in some of these churches (all faiths). That said, it must be a real comfort to be a believer. I kind of envy those who think there’s more after this life. An everlasting life.

Rosina, be kind includes not judging . By your post you have no knowledge of how many Churches are open to the homless . Have you taken a stranger into your home ?

Good post Rosina. I have never ever encountered a poor Priest or Vicar.
They all appear to live in nice houses.
Even in the 50's this was the case.
No austerity there, but they freely condemn it.
Probably the same with other faiths too having a bit of experience of human nature.

I know many atheists and agnostics who in their comfy homes condemn Christians for having a home.

c-18 10:08:06
Good post Rosina. I have never ever encountered a poor Priest or Vicar.They all appear to live in nice houses

In the spirit of Christmas I will only say
What a load of b*ll*cks

Good post Rosina. I am a Quaker, it might sound strange but I don't believe in a god but in the Quakers way of life and I am accepted, there is no preaching, just peace and the will the to help others.

I am a priest. I became one after retirement. I am not paid and live on a pension. I used to volunteer with the homeless an worked for the nhs. I hate fundamentalism in any form. You are right that it’s aboutwhat we do rather than what we believe. Christians are not the only ones who believe this. This is true religion, to love our neighbors. And the micah 6.8 quote is perfect. Btw I live in a small estate house! Paid priests in the Anglican Church get a tied house, so part of their salary and taxable. Salaries aren’t huge in this country... but it’s a great role ...

Anniebach that was a sting to Rosina. Have you as a good Christian person taken a homeless person into your home? Thought not. It’s not about the individual here. Rosina was posting about the wealth of churches. Not us.

MawBroom one of your better, well thought out and explanative posts I see.

The wealth displayed in (some) churches is visible and obvious, and much of it has been there for centuries, having been given by wealthy people long ago.

The care shown to the homeless and hopeless, by all churches, of all denominations, and all non-Christian religions too, is invisible and not seen by those who don't need it. Don't be so quick to condemn, or to assume that a "good Christian" has done nothing for anyone else in the course of her long and often difficult life.

My thoughts are with the people of Indonesia.
Is there more truth in the book of Revelations than what we want to admit?

It is interesting that the most condemnation of wealthy churches comes from those who never set foot in one, either for worship or to ask for help in extremity.

I think it is a general misconception that the church is still very wealthy. Much of its wealth is required to pay the pensions of retired clergy and maintain its buildings. Much of the 'wealth' of the church has already been sold off for this purpose. It certainly isn't how it used to be.

As a former Baptist minister's wife, I would like to shed light on Rosina's concept of "nice houses". We were given a manse to live in which we had to vacate when leaving the job. The stipend was very low, so saving up towards retirement was challenging. Spending had to be minimal. But we did receive donations of old clothes and toys for the children. The most memorable was a bike. "Here's a bicycle we don't want any more. It's got only one wheel, but we thought you might want it." My then husband told me that people judged us on our homes and clothes. I was cynical then but Rosina has confirmed this.

I think you mean "explanatory"
Still unmitigated and uninformed b*ll*cks of course

And we must not forget the spirit of goodwill and patience
My God is a good God .I do not believe in the burning in hell the more I understand him the more I believe in his compassion and love to all mankind

It was a reply not a sting. if one is going to judge and critcise they should at least get their facts right. Priests live in tied houses just as farm workers do, their could earn much more in other occupations than in the Church. And Rosina did critcise individuals .

There is one person who has caused me so much harm and hurt with lies, he is a Quaker, I do not judge all Quakers because of the actions of one.

Yes I have opened my home to people in need, I use to short term foster teenage girls from families with troubles, I have given night shelter to people in distress.

A dear friend of many years, a priest has spent December sleeping in his church which he has opened to the homeless, during the day he holds services for those who wish to attend church services, visits the sick in his parish, is chaplain to a hospital ,

I suggest googling for the temple where the Daila Llama lives

Fair comment Anniebach. I certainly don’t want to cause offence (to anyone!).